One Last Hit | A Sobriety and Addiction Recovery Podcast

SPEAKER_00: Oh man, I tried that
new intro music today.

I don't know if I like it better
or not, but uh hey, what's

happening, ladies and gentlemen?

My name is Austin.

Welcome to the One Last Hip
Podcast, and we are in for a

very, very special treat.

Have my good buddy Matt H
joining us today.

Matt, what's up, brother?

You another beautiful day, bro.

Another beautiful day.

Let's go.

Let's go, man.

So, why is your day beautiful,
man?

What were you doing?

SPEAKER_01: Oh man, uh, well, I
have a really cool job.

I get to build theme parks.

So today I started out playing
out at uh Universal's Epic at um

Nintendo Land.

So the Mario theme music is
stuck in my head, and I hear it

at night and hear it in my
dreams, and that's okay.

Were you in Universal today or
just building for them?

No, I was in Universal today, so
I got you know what I'm saying,

I got special access.

Um show up about I get there
before the park opens, and I got

it all to myself, and I can
frolic and get all the

information I need for the day.

SPEAKER_00: So that's freaking
awesome, man.

I love that so much.

So, all right, so I told you
guys Matt is uh a good buddy of

mine, he's a very important
fixture in our our 12-step

recovery family that we have
around here.

But I, because we don't do a lot
of speaker meetings around here,

so I've never really heard your
story, Matt.

And and I'm I'm really kind of
pretty excited and intrigued to

get into it.

And I'll tell you why.

It has not failed that everyone
that I've had on this show, when

I hear their story, I experience
like a greater level of intimacy

with them afterwards, like a
deeper friendship, you know.

And so I'm excited to uh I'm
excited to go down that road

with you.

Uh so tell me, where does it all
begin?

SPEAKER_01: Oh man, uh it all
began in Colorado in the 80s.

Uh, I was born to a cowboy
carpenter and an Avon

saleswoman.

And when I say Avon saleswoman,
I mean like if if you aren't

familiar, like Avon and Mary
Kay, if you're the top

salesperson, they give you a
vehicle.

And the Avon one is like this
olive green Cadillac.

So we were pimping in style as a
child.

Um, so that's just the
background, my history.

Um, I come from hardworking
folk.

Um, in uh a couple of years
after I was born, my dad, the

cowboy, was bucked off of a
horse and it shattered both of

his uh femurs.

And so in the healing process,
the negative, like the below

zero temperatures, he couldn't
he couldn't handle it.

The pain was too much, so moved
down to Florida.

And that's where I grew up, was
uh in a little country town

called Maconope.

Um my canopy.

Um it was uh we were on 10 acres
in the middle of 400 acres of

cow fields, so it was pretty
cool.

Um lots of debauchery on my own.

Um as part of the recovery
story, like I didn't actually

touch alcohol until I was in
seventh grade when my buddy's

dad opened up, uh he opened up
the liquor cabinet and pulled

out this stuff called 151.

I'd never heard of, and we all
took a sip, and I said, I will

never touch this shit again.

SPEAKER_00: Um, hold on.

I we're gonna pause there.

SPEAKER_01: Your first drink was
151.

My first drink was a shot of
151.

SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01: Oh, it was horrible.

It was horrible.

And you'd think uh if for
probably any normal person, that

would have been it.

Uh but uh and it was for me at
that point.

I I'd swore it off.

I said I'd never drink this
stuff.

I don't know how.

Um, my dad also growing up, I
didn't know it was illegal to

drink and drive until I got into
high school because he always

had a cooler behind the
passenger seat full of coors

light, and then one sweet tea
for me, one of those little uh

those little lemon lemon iced
teas.

Uh so he picked me up from
school with the coors light, and

I didn't know it was illegal um
until uh there was there was an

incident when I was in like
fourth or fifth grade where he

remarried.

Uh my mother passed away when I
was six.

Um and the the her dying wish
was to find Matthew a mom.

So a couple years later he met
uh another woman who's now my

stepmother and has been for the
last 30 years.

Wow.

Uh wonderful, wonderful human
being.

But she's a very, very devout
Christian, didn't drink at all,

and uh had a huge problem with
my dad's drinking.

So one day there was a big blow
up, and he has been sober for

23, 24 years now.

Well, he's been without a drink.

SPEAKER_00: Okay, so let me let
me just recap here real quick.

So your mom passed away at six,
and your dad is 23 or 24 years

sober now.

How old were you when you took
that 151 drink?

SPEAKER_01: I was in seventh
grade, yeah, bouncing around a

bit.

So however old that is.

Well, let's see, seventh grade
is uh gonna be so like 13?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 13.

Yeah, somewhere in there.

Okay, that's a good reasonable
age.

That's when I first took a
drink.

Uh so where do we go from here?

When let me ask you this
actually, Matt, because this is

an important, important
question.

If you were to if you were to
name how you felt as a kid prior

to alcohol, what feeling would
you give it?

SPEAKER_01: Uh disconnected.

So I I kind of felt like I was
watching myself walk through

life, and it was uh it was this
this running joke in my head.

I never shared it with anybody
until I got into recovery, but

um, I felt like I was walking
through a I was reading a comic

book about my life, frame by
frame.

And I felt I always felt
disconnected and I don't know if

different is the right word, but
not I wasn't here, I was there,

wherever there was.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

Good one.

So where do we go from here?

What when when do you actually
pick up alcohol in like a

meaningful sense?

At the age of 20.

SPEAKER_01: So I graduated high
school and got got into

university.

Yeah, yeah, there was a long gap
where I didn't.

I was actually there's the there
were two proms that I went to

and went to after parties, and I
was the DD for um for a lot of

people.

And they I had a 91 Toyota
Cambry, and it smelled like

vomit for quite some time after
the prom.

Um, but I didn't pick up until I
was 20 years old.

And um, and that was when that
we we talk about that uh that

that first sip, and you're like,
oh, this is the solution to all

of my problems from here on out,
right?

So that happened.

Um and uh it made everything
better, it made sex better, it

made conversations better.

I didn't remember any of it, but
at the time it seemed better,

right?

Um and then by the time I was
25, nobody wanted to hang out

with me unless they drank like
me.

So it progressed really quick.

SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's
interesting.

So from the age of 13 to 20,
what was it that was it that you

didn't like the taste, or was it
that you saw your dad, you know,

go down that road, or or do you
have a conscious memory of why

you kind of you must have said
multiple times, no, I'm not

touching that stuff, I'm not
drinking.

SPEAKER_01: Sure, I got offered
it all the time because my

friends were all they were all
potheads and everybody drank

every weekend, and I just wasn't
interested.

Part of it, I was I was
separated.

Like I said, I was out in the
middle of the country on 10

acres, um, and all my friends
lived in town.

We called it town, right?

In Gainesville.

Um, so I didn't go hang out a
lot.

I played a lot of sports, so I
was uh my dad wanted me to be a

pro baseball player, so a lot of
my free time was was taking up,

taking ground balls and doing
batting practice out in the in

the yard.

Right.

Um so and there was also the my
whole family is very, very, very

devout Southern Baptist.

So that was that definitely
rubbed off of me as a child, so

as to not imbibe, if you will.

And it just wasn't it wasn't
available at home because dad

quit drinking.

Nobody else in my family drank
um that lived around me, because

I had this little we had this
little uh compound where it was

like uh my immediate family, and
then 200 yards away, my

grandparents had their farm,
which was a hydroponic lettuce,

tomato, and basil, it's a huge
outfit.

We also built airboats as a side
business, but that's a whole

nother story.

Um and then a couple hundred
yards further, my aunt and uncle

lived, so we all kind of lived
around each other, nobody drank,

so it was easy for me not to.

SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.

Okay, so but between the ages of
20 and 25, now was 25 like an

important marker in your life,
or was that just a random number

that you picked that by that
point drinking had progressed to

the to the point that nobody was
hanging out with you unless they

drank like you?

SPEAKER_01: No, the 25.

It was actually I was uh two
months into my 25th year.

Um, and it was on a specific
night, it was the first night so

I was introduced to cocaine.

Um and that was when things got
weird.

Uh so I just started I started
drinking in college.

Um, and uh I was a really good
student, you know, I had like a

3.8 uh at the University of
Florida, and then my high school

sweetheart uh uh ended up
cheating on me in my bed and um

and filmed it.

Uh and I found the videos, and
that's when I really took off.

Um, I remember vividly that
night after finding that video,

I went to my buddy's house and
drank Captain Silver, drank an

entire handle of it.

Um, and that's when the drinking
became, you know, I was trying

to numb the pain, trying to numb
the pain, and it worked really

well.

Um and then I ended up dropping
out of school and at 23 getting

a job working at a nightclub in
downtown Gainesville.

And um, that's when that's when
the debauchery really turned up

a notch.

SPEAKER_00: Hmm, interesting.

And and I apologize if you said
this and I missed it.

Did did you graduate from the
University of Florida?

I did, I did later.

SPEAKER_01: So I took uh my one
semester break that I was gonna

take lasted seven years working
at the nightclub.

So I was I was I was real quick
to turn around.

Um, so I ended up going back and
getting my bachelor's degree in

in fine arts.

So it just uh it went it was
weird being in a room as a

30-year-old.

I graduated when I was 30.

Um, but I was taking classes
with 17 and 18-year-olds, and

just you know, I've I've got
this life experience that they

don't, and you know, the
professors are younger than me.

It was it was very interesting,
uh interesting experience, but

glad I did it though.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've thought
about going back to college,

man.

I I don't know, I couldn't
anything I've ever wanted to do

in life didn't require a college
degree.

Right.

SPEAKER_01: Like my job right
now, uh I'm one of few people

that have any type of uh further
education because it's you know,

an artist is an artist, right?

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.

So all right, so now you're
getting into the magical uh the

magical combination of cocaine
and alcohol.

Uh because cocaine obviously
lets you drink more.

Quite.

So tell me tell me what what
does this look like?

SPEAKER_01: So the first time I
tried it, um it was it was

actually after another breakup,
oddly enough.

Uh the women women seem to uh
seem to feed the insanity in my

life, uh, ending of
relationships and whatnot.

Um but the first time I tried
it, it was cut really hard.

So I didn't really, I just had a
clogged up nose.

And then a couple nights later,
I that first line, um, it's

like, okay, this is the new
solution because the alcohol is

not working anymore.

It still hurts.

I become the guy that uh that
just gets drunk and like cries

and complains about the women in
my life that aren't there

anymore.

Um, and then the cocaine, it
literally turned me into a

different person.

It was quite literally a Jekyll
and Jekyll and Hyde situation.

SPEAKER_00: What did you mean by
it turns you into a different

person?

Like social or like asshole?

SPEAKER_01: Um neither, more
isolating.

So I would um because I'm I'm a
fairly outgoing, you know, guy.

I like to, I really I enjoy
people, I enjoy conversation, I

enjoy camarad camaraderie.

But when I put that stuff in my
body, all I want to do is be by

myself in my room in the dark.

Um, so it's uh it was it
literally created a uh a hermit

out of me.

SPEAKER_00: Boy, I get that,
dude.

I used to so I used to I used to
smoke crack.

This is when I lived in Mexico.

I used to smoke crack and listen
to John Mayer and just cry, bro.

Like sounds like an awesome
time, bro.

Sounds like a great time.

Oh dear God, yeah, good times,
man.

Good times.

All right, so where where are we
at here?

Cocaine, alcohol, crying to John
Mayer.

Um so where do you progress?

Because I know you went through
God, years of trying to trying

to quit drinking and
consequences.

Like, tell me about some of the
consequences you experienced.

SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that
was part of the part of the

thing that took me so long is I
really didn't suffer that many

consequences.

I haven't had any health scares.

Um, I lost a job that I was
gonna quit anyway.

Um, that was probably the
biggest one.

Uh well, I wouldn't say the
biggest one.

It was the most substantial one.

The biggest one was the loss of
a girl that I I thought I was

going to marry.

Um and probably would have if I
could have if I if I wasn't in

the depths of my addiction.

What happened there?

I just drank her away.

The short short story.

Um she got tired of of me either
not showing up because I was

either trashed or hungover, and
saying in that my thing is I get

really trashed and I like to
text, and I text the most insane

things, not mean.

Um, I've never been a mean
person, which is good for me.

Uh I do hold that candle.

Um but I turn into an insane
person.

And if you know, if it's with a
woman, it's purely sexual

conversation.

Um guys, you know, I want to
start a business with you.

Let's start, let's start a
business tomorrow, bro.

We'll start a business selling
sandwiches and call it call it

nasty sandwiches or something.

That was that was a real idea I
had that I remember.

Uh, we'll buy a food truck and
we'll we'll make some sauce.

We'll call it nasty sauce.

Um go on.

That I'm I'm just I'm
reminiscing about that one.

That one's still a good one.

Um, that's probably the only
good idea that came out of

anything.

Um one of the biggest things
though is I one of the fears

about trying to get sober was I
thought I would lose my

creativity.

And as a professional artist,
that's uh that would be tough.

And it what's really interesting
is it had quite the opposite

effect.

Um but back to the consequences,
like there, I had plenty of

conversations with people like
Hunter and uh and other guys in

our our network that were like,
dude, you just keep God keeps

giving you gifts and you keep
throwing them away.

Um and I'm just I'm grateful to
be sitting here with you today

and say that I've walked through
those those times, you know.

SPEAKER_00: I'm grateful for
that too.

I remember you were you were the
guy that was always putting his

hand up for under 30 days, and
now you're not.

And I'm curious, you know,
there's like I watched, you

know, I watched you pop in and
out, right?

And and and and it was kind of
like, well, there goes Matt,

he's in a bottle again, and then
but something shifted, like

something in a really big way,
you know.

I I think about that meeting a
couple couple Wednesdays ago

when that dude's like, he's a
really good sponsor, and I was

like, talking about our Matt?

Like, yeah, bro.

So good, so good, dude.

So so when does your sobriety
journey take on like new legs?

SPEAKER_01: Um, honestly, this
year earlier this year.

I mean, my my sobriety date's uh
February 16th of 26.

Um and I showed up August of 21.

So that was my first AA meeting
on Sean L's five-year

anniversary, was my first AA
meeting.

Um, well, that's a lie.

Let me read let me back up.

So in 2017, I had a uh I had a
roommate best friend from

childhood when I moved I moved
here um to Orlando in 2014,

moved in with him because he'd
already lived here, and I moved

here for work to work at the
theme parks.

And suddenly I had a substantial
income so I could drink more and

do more blood.

Um, and his whole thing was like
I I would drink and drive all

the time.

And he's like, I can't watch you
do this.

You either need to get help or
I'm I'm I'm out of your life.

He's like, You need to go to AA,
and I was like, What's AA?

Um But I ended up so I I found I
found the the rooms of recovery

and uh was was going to this uh
clubhouse meeting every morning

at 6 30 in the morning for for
31 days I went.

Um and uh and I I was like okay
this is pretty cool.

Started going back in the gym,
is when I first started um uh

training for powerlifting.

And so I was doing I was going
to this meeting and then doing

doing the gym, and I was getting
really strong really fast, uh,

without any assistance, boiler.

Right um, but um there was this
guy in there, and I I talk about

him often when I share the
stories, is uh every single day

he would come in and complain
about how horrible his life was.

And you know, it would just turn
the room down, everybody would

get down, like ah, this guy's
sharing again.

And then on day 29, he picked up
his 10-year medallion, and I was

like, if this is what sobriety
is, I'm gonna go back to doing

whatever I was doing.

And then I ended up falling at
work and having this horrible

accident um that almost took my
life.

And so I at that point I was
laid up in my bed and couldn't

go anywhere, so I didn't go back
to AA or didn't go back to the

rooms um until 21 after I went
to my first treatment.

My uh and I went, I didn't go to
treatment because I wanted to

get better.

I didn't go because I thought it
was a good idea.

I went because I didn't want to
lose my job, and my employer was

like, You you need to get help.

Um and I'd spent the previous
two years before that first sent

in treatment in the Bahamas
working, and I was surrounded by

people that I'd I'd said, Please
don't let me drink.

You know, I thought that would
work, and it kind of did, right?

I the longest I ever put
together was about nine months

without a drink uh or drug, and
it uh uh it was probably you

know, I'm in paradise, utterly
miserable because I can't get

out of my head.

I'm insane.

I've got that spiritual hole,
right?

And and it used to be filled
with alcohol and drugs and and

whatever, and now I'm just
working and uh working working

myself to the bone because it's
all I can do.

And I'm in another country.

I don't, you know, I don't know
anybody, I don't really have any

um hobbies there, right?

And then I come back to the
states to work on a Disney

project, and within two months
I'm in my first treatment.

SPEAKER_00: So your prog your
drinking progression was not was

not slow, and I'm I'm kind of I
find it remarkable that you were

able to get nine months dry,
especially in the Bahamas, dude.

Which is oh my god, every
corner, every corner there's a

liquor store.

I mean, the straw market,
they're trying to sell you blow,

like everywhere, dude.

SPEAKER_01: All the taxi drivers
as a side gig sell drugs, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: So it's a side gig,
you know, it's a great side gig,

they make a lot of money.

Yeah, so that's interesting.

So that was what you would you
had obviously gotten to the

point where you knew alcohol was
a problem.

Like at this stage of the game,
what year was that when you went

to the Pamas?

SPEAKER_01: This was uh I went
in uh in the middle of 19.

So this would be around 20,
somewhere in the middle of 20.

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00: So this is right
when COVID hits and all that

happy shit.

Right?

SPEAKER_01: I spent I spent I
spent COVID in the on the

island.

That was that was a whole nother
that's that was something.

SPEAKER_00: But at this point,
had anyone ever like explained

to you, you know, what an
alcoholic actually was, like

what that really looks like.

Have you had were you were you
at that point to where you had

gotten that sort of information,
or was it just sort of like,

hey, I I just can't drink
because it's really fucking my

life up right now?

SPEAKER_01: That's that was it.

Nobody had ever sat down be
there.

There was a guy that uh that was
in that meeting I went to for

those 30 days in in January, uh
January in uh 2017, that you

know took a liking to me and he
tried to help me, but now

looking back, I realized he was
somebody who had also hadn't

done any step work himself, and
it was an open discussion

meeting, so there was there
wasn't a lot of uh recovery in

the in this meeting, it was a
lot of complaining.

So I really I I didn't get
exposed to really what an

alcoholic was until I came in in
21.

SPEAKER_00: Okay.

And what pieces do you think had
to fall together for you, you

know, to to get you to a place
of willingness?

Like what was it?

I know I know I had a ton, like
a fucking cornucopia's worth of

consequences and information
that finally kicked me in the

nuts hard enough to make me go,
okay, I surrender.

SPEAKER_01: No, that's a that's
a really good question.

I've never considered that.

Like what really happened?

I can tell you that you know,
there's there's part A and part

B to step one, right?

And part B, I didn't my life
didn't seem unmanageable.

I still had a job, I've got a
house, I had a couple vehicles,

like life was on paper, I looked
great, but inside I was dying,

you know.

So so it was easy for me to, you
know, read through that first

chapter and be like and and see
myself in the literature, right?

And when you say first chapter,
do you mean doctor's opinion?

I mean the doctor's opinion
specifically.

Yeah.

Okay.

So I I the doctor's opinion
really it rang out to me.

And I was like, I am 100% this
person.

I'm the hopeless guy.

Right.

And um, but you know, life
didn't seem unmanageable.

SPEAKER_00: So you bring up an
interesting point.

And and you know, we try and
respect the traditions and not

identify particular uh 12-step
fellowships if we can avoid it,

which I often can't.

But there's there's two there's
two examples we get in the book,

right?

One is Jim and one is Fred.

And if you if you look at these
examples on how they describe

Jim and Fred at the beginning of
these paragraphs, it says, you

know, uh Fred was a you know a
partner at a well-known

accounting firm.

He has fine income, has
wonderful children of college

age.

If anyone there, if ever there
is a successful businessman, it

is Fred, right?

Yet he is an alcoholic.

And and they do that with Jim,
too.

They do the same shit with Jim,
you know, a decorated World War

veteran, great salesman, normal
so far as we can see, except for

a nervous disposition.

And I don't think it's by
accident that when they describe

these two people, that they say,
Hey, look at all these great

things about their life, yet
they're an alcoholic.

You know, and I think a big
misconception, and and you know,

this may start the banter here.

A big misconception that a lot
of people have is that my life

is unmanageable or not
unmanageable based on my bank

account and my house and whether
the dog ran away and whether my

wife still likes me.

Well, you know, but the
perception, yeah.

But but the truth is, I think
for me, and this may not be the

same for everyone, I think for
me, my life is perpetually

unmanageable because I have a
body that can't take alcohol and

a mind that refuses to leave it
alone without a spiritual

experience behind it.

Because if my life's
unmanageable because of the dog

and the wife and the house and
the kids, you know, well, what

happens when I get all that shit
back?

Is my life manageable now?

Does door number three open up?

Right.

And I side look, we went on a
little side tangent there, but I

think it was uh one worth worth
having.

Do you got you have any take on
that?

SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.

So the the definition of
unmanageability has changed a

lot for me because that what you
just said was where I was at.

Like I was okay on, like I said,
on paper, things were fine, my

health wasn't in in jeopardy.

Um, you know, I was progressing
in my career.

Um, I started the the
powerlifting thing at the time

was was uh I was progressing in
strength.

Um the only thing that seemed
the the I would get blips of a

manageability when women would
come into my life and then they

would suddenly disappear, right?

Like everything would be great
because I'm a pretty cool dude,

right?

I'm fun to be around, so I
attract some really awesome

women, but then they hang out
with me for a little while, and

then suddenly they're like,
Whoa, this dude is a train

wreck, and I'm like, No, I'm
not, I'm not a train wreck at

all.

I just do a thousand dollars a
blow a week, no big deal.

Um, and uh, and but now that
unmanageability, just like you

said, it's like it's here.

This is unmanageable, and I
didn't have any spiritual

experience.

And you know, as somebody that
grew up in the church, I thought

I knew who God was, and I just
know stories about God, and it

took me a really long time.

It took the you know, that
five-year stint of sitting in

the rooms listening to other
people explain their conception

of of God, of their higher
power, for me to realize that I

had no idea who I was talking to
when I prayed.

It was just a story for me, and
so I think I mean you earlier

you asked, you know, what you
know what fell into place.

Like for me, my higher power was
work, it was always work.

Um the better I was doing it at
work, the better my life was,

right?

Like, if I'm if I made a mistake
at work, it ruined my entire

week, little on the day.

Um and it's been pointed out to
me multiple times in this, you

know, in the in the five years
that that I was sitting in the

rooms and not doing well, is
like, well, you don't have a

higher power, you worship your
your career, and it was true,

and it took me a long time to
not not necessarily admit that

because I could see it, but to
understand it and make it make

an adjustment, right?

Um and Richard V, every time I
would share about uh every time

at uh we had a Sunday meeting,
and uh, if I would bring the

topic, it would typically be
about Christianity, right?

And he would end up ripping me a
new one, just verbal, like like

borderline verbal abuse.

Uh yeah, and I didn't appreciate
it at the time.

And you know, uh a few of those
happened, and then the the best

one there's a guy named Abe that
uh pulled me aside after a

meeting one time and uh was
like, Do you have a God in your

life?

I was like, Yeah, I'm a devout
Christian.

He goes, Okay, what'd you do
Christ like today?

And I had nothing.

Was that California Abe?

That was California, yeah, yeah,
yeah.

Cool.

Yeah, and that was a big turning
point for me as well.

So so kind of I and now I
wouldn't even say that I know

God.

I just at least at least I have
a relationship with the dude

I've been talking to for the
last 40 something years, right?

SPEAKER_00: So oh yeah.

I just I just finished a podcast
with somebody.

We were we were kind of going
along these these lines, these

spiritual, you know, she had she
had asked me what my what my uh

what the hell was her question?

What was my spiritual journey
like?

Like how has my concept changed
over the years?

And it it's constantly,
constantly changing.

And I think a lot about that
line, that Carl Jung line that

that essentially is while your
religious convictions are very

good, they don't spell the
necessary vital spiritual

experience that we're talking
about here, right?

And I, you know, I I think what
I rely on more than anything are

actions that I can fairly
reasonably assume are going to

produce the result that I think
I want, right?

Which is like, which is like,
you know, making amends, for

example, right, is a very
spiritual thing.

It's it's not an easy thing to
do uh by any stretch, right?

Saying that that I'm wrong and
kind of deflating that ego.

But in the midst of doing that,
I trust that it's going to help

fortify my sobriety because
that's what the book says to do.

Or that, like if I'm kind to
people, right, if I put myself

in that position to keep close
to God and perform his work

well, that he'll provide what I
need, that that promise out of

the book.

And so I think my concept of God
is not so much the religious God

that I was raised with, but it's
more this set of principles

that, like, if practiced, you
know, can can expel the

obsession to drink and use
drugs, right?

Like I think we read that in the
meeting the other day with the

four to the 12 and 12.

Yeah, yeah.

So that's interesting.

And and so, okay, so we're at
2021, 2022.

What was your longest period of
sobriety during that time, like

leading up to this year?

Two uh two days short of six
months.

SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, so you had
some.

It was it was that well, once
again, it was it was a dry

thing.

Like I showed up, I had the
girl, I had the job, I had all

the things, and then I walked
into a room.

Like I said, it was on Sean L's
uh five-year anniversary, and

these guys were talking about
literature and talking about

perception and talking about
willingness and stuff instead of

crying about their dog made them
late for work.

And I was like, Okay, I can get
it, I can get after this.

And so I would go to I'd go to
two meetings a week with the

same group and I'd sit in the
back and be quiet and whatnot

and participate.

I'd call my sponsor once a
month, um, typically it would

just a complain about a roommate
or something like that.

And he would he would question
if I was an alcoholic or not,

um, because I just wasn't I
wasn't participating.

But then in 2023, uh January of
23, the girl and I split.

And then suddenly life wasn't
manageable anymore.

And uh I picked up and um from
January of 23 until February of

this year, I barely put together
over a month.

Yeah, I'd say there are a couple
times I'd do too.

Um, I'd get like 60 something
days.

Uh, and then I ended up having
to go to treatment two more

times after that as well.

Um wow.

SPEAKER_00: So took some trips.

I want to ask you a question
that I don't know if you'll want

to talk about on camera.

And if you don't, just tell me
no and I'll c I'll snip this

part.

But you had mentioned a really
like pivotal thing that you kind

of shared and came to terms with
that had happened at work that

you watched somebody go through.

Do you know what I'm talking
about?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah,
absolutely.

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: Is that anything
you're willing to talk about?

SPEAKER_01: 100%.

100%.

You're talking about the death,
right?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

So uh I came into work one
morning into the office.

We had a uh a like a six, seven
thousand square foot office

attached to a 30,000 square foot
warehouse space where we stored

all of our material and our
equipment, and it had a 40-foot

ceiling.

So came in one morning about I
was there about seven o'clock,

and I was unloading my car, and
I heard a big bang, and uh

people started running.

And I came into a scene of a guy
had fallen through the roof and

landed headfirst on the concrete
floor, and it was um as as gory

as you can imagine somebody
hitting their head on concrete

from a 40-foot uh fall.

Um, if you've never seen what's
in the inside of a inside of the

human body, it's very thick and
it's purple, it's not it doesn't

look like blood.

And everybody scattered, and I
found myself standing there with

this guy's two brothers as they
bawling their eyes out, not

knowing what to do.

So I called 911 and um maybe
emotional.

I was and uh they walked me
through, you know, trying to

give this guy CPR.

And the story I used to tell is
I gave him CPR and I literally

watched the lights go out.

I watched him die, and that is
true.

Um, I was staring into his face
when he died.

Um but the thing that I was
carrying around for so many

years was that like I was too
afraid to give this guy CPR

because I didn't he was I mean
he was he was gone.

He was for sure not gonna live
through this.

But the fact that I didn't try
to help him it just it aided me,

it would keep me up at night.

And obviously still, like that's
a it it's something that I've

you know I've walked through
with a sponsor and you know I

shared with the group.

And it's um it's it it was a
shame and uh and a guilt that

has now been taken from me, but
that pain I could see in his

brother's eyes is really what
still gets me emotional because

they uh he's 23 years old and
had two two children under the

age of two.

Um just moved to America and was
trying to start a new life.

And the biggest thing, because I
was I was in, you know, I was in

a uh in the rooms of recovery at
this point.

The biggest thing was is he was
hammered drunk.

And he had been they'd been
working on the roof for about a

week, and he uh my coworkers
said every day they that he

showed up, he smelled like
goose, he couldn't walk.

And there was one day that they
made him sit in the truck

because he was too drunk and he
can climb up the ladder.

So it was a that was a very,
very heavy moment in my life

without a doubt.

SPEAKER_00: Wow, thank you,
thank you for sharing that, man.

I know that that was I mean,
probably as recent as six months

ago, that wouldn't have been
something that you could have

gotten through.

Is that correct?

SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely not.

And it's it was something that
was hard enough just to talk

with one other person, let alone
a group or uh you know, on a

podcast.

SPEAKER_00: So yeah, for sure.

Thank you for sharing that,
dude.

So I'm um I'm curious.

Having, you know, I've known you
for probably three years now,

right?

Close to something like that.

Somewhere there.

Yeah.

And so, you know, having watched
you, and I know, you know,

you're you're one of those guys
that's just well loved, right?

He's big fella.

I don't know if you can tell by
looking on the camera, but when

I see Matt, and I'm I'm a I'm
not a small guy by any stretch,

and he like bear hugs me and
picks me up when he sees me at a

meeting, um, which I just love
that, right?

I I go to I go to Suspects,
which is our home group, and

just something fires up inside
of me, and I just want to run

around the room and be like,
there you are, I've missed you,

you know, to like everyone that
I see, right?

Love that shit, right?

SPEAKER_01: Like you're a
five-year-old, you see your your

childhood buddy, you know, it's
like that every week.

SPEAKER_00: Yes, dude.

But you know, I never like
that's the thing my heart wanted

more than anything else in this
world, like forever.

And I I A, I didn't know that
that's what was gonna set me on

fire, but B, the way that the
way that we get that is through

like you sharing your story,
right?

It's through that intimacy of
hey, I'm gonna share this with

you, and it's it's not something
I want to share with you, or

it's not something that's gonna
make me look good, but it's

something that is going to let
you behind the curtain, and we

build that bond, you know, and
and doing that week after week

after week with the same people.

I remember first coming into
Suspects and John, who I'm

trying to get on the show, but
he's he his damn company blocked

StreamYard for some reason on
their internet, anyhow.

We'll get we'll get John on
here.

But he was he was going through
something very personal in his

life, and he had six or seven
years of sobriety and he was

sharing about it openly, and it
gave me permission to go, okay,

this is how you get in with this
group.

So, you know, now I'm gonna scan
my life and try and bring these

intimate personal details of
myself to the table, and uh and

it's been a remarkable
experience to to just just to

experience personally, you know.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely,
absolutely.

So and that's that's a that's a
tough thing for me too, right?

Like the the principle behind
step one is honesty, and I

always I always used to think I
was an honest person until I

walked in and saw what honesty
and real transparency looked

like.

And it's something I crave, and
I've I still I still struggle

with it a lot, just uh being
open and honest about what's

going on, even to myself.

And that's one of the biggest
things is that that delusion

still that like I I I liken my
my life sometimes to that meme

of the dog sitting in the
kitchen and the whole house is

on fire around him.

He says, This is fine, this is
fine, yeah.

And and that's totally that's
totally what goes on in my head

a lot of times.

Like, I'm wild, I'll be wildly
overwhelmed uh with you know

work, finances.

You know, I'm family members are
getting older and starting to

get sick.

And I'm like, this is fine, no
big deal.

And people are like, dude, we
can tell you're not okay.

And I'm like, no, I'm fucking
fine.

Get away from me.

Yeah, uh, you know, it's it's uh
it's it's been an interesting

walk, um, for me personally,
just trying to trying to learn

what it really means to be
genuinely honest to the men in

my life that care, that want to
know, they want to help, you

know, and just like you said,
you we show up in this room and

it's like all the friends, and
all the friends that I that I

never knew I needed.

You know, or wanted or wanted
for that matter, because they

not only not only are they
always there for me, but you

guys always call me on my shit,
and I don't particularly care

for that all the time.

I we hate that, don't we?

SPEAKER_00: I hate that joke.

I don't need to be correct.

You know what's very interesting
though is like you know, I could

go down off of OBT down here and
find some crackhead and say,

dude, here's what's going on in
my life.

What do you think I should do?

And he he might 50-50 shot how
high he is, but he might give me

a better answer to what I should
do than my own brain will come

up with most of the time because
because other people can look at

our lives objectively, whereas
we look at them emotionally, and

and and that's been a weird
experience for me is to learn

that I think I perceive truth, I
think I'm seeing the truth about

my life, but it's always driven
by emotions, which I'm are

pretty much inescapable as human
beings, and other people will

always see my life more clearly
than I will if given the

information, but I don't like it
in the moment.

I hate that shit.

SPEAKER_01: No, it's awful, it's
awful, specifically not being

called out, but recognizing that
you aren't as doing as great as

you think, you know.

And that's it.

That's that's been the heavy one
where it's just like, yeah, I'm

finally killing it, I'm doing
well.

And people like, dude, you are
fucking up.

What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh
let's go make some nasty sauce.

Let's uh bathe in it, rub it on
my nipples.

So what has been you know, what
is your what is your sobriety

look like today?

Like what you know, since we're
still kind of in the interview

Matt uh phase here.

By the way, I really want Matt
to be my co-host for this

podcast, and that's part of why
I'm bantering with him is to see

if if that's something he wants
to do.

Yeah, those of y'all who are
just listening on Apple or

Spotify, you're not gonna see
the beautiful man that just put

his what are those things?

Are those Oakley's or some shit?

What are they?

SPEAKER_01: I think they're fake
pit vipers.

So these funny enough, uh a uh
the first men's retreat that I

went to was in was in West
Virginia, and we went to

Harper's Ferry.

And uh at the time I was 275
pounds, um, and I was too heavy

to ride the zipline because
apparently a 5,000 psi cable

cannot hold a 275-pound man.

So anyway, I went to the gift
shop and found these stupid

things.

So I think I paid like 25 bucks
for them.

SPEAKER_00: But um, that was it,
that was a step brothers, right?

SPEAKER_01: That was Step
Brothers.

These they're my they're my Rick
Flairs, my woo.

SPEAKER_00: Bro, they're
bangers.

I went to that.

I went to that zipline, and uh,
I'll be honest with you.

I it was the only time I've ever
gone ziplining, and when I

climbed to the top of that
fucking telephone pole that is

like I went to that exact same
zip lining place, yes, and and

you're standing up on that
platform, dude.

I was regretting my life
choices.

SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, it's like
50 foot up in the air, and

you're like, oh okay.

This is stupid.

Oh, it was so funny.

Uh, I don't know if you know
David M that uh was one of he's

one of John's sponsors you moved
to Melbourne.

SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: But he's utterly oh
yeah, of course I do.

SPEAKER_00: Of course I do.

SPEAKER_01: Right, yeah, yeah.

Right, right.

So he's utterly terrified of
heights, and so what I cheat, I

you know, I I have a YouTube
channel that I really like to

it's more of a vlog thing for
me.

So I took the opportunity to
kind of film the the walk

through that weekend with
obviously without the actual

men's retreat itself, but just
us as as a fellowship, what we

were doing, and so I filmed
these guys with a drone going

through the zipline.

And David, I swear, I watched
him fill his underwear up, like

he was so scared, but it was in
and it's on the internet for

everybody to see.

SPEAKER_00: Yes, dude.

Oh fuck, I love that so much,
bro.

I love that.

So back back to the question.

I think I asked the question, or
I'm A D D and I didn't, but what

is what is your sobriety like?

Like in a in a real granular,
granular level.

What is what is a day in the
sober life of Matt look like?

Like what do you do for your for
your recovery today?

SPEAKER_01: So I typically wake
up between like 3 30 and 4 30 in

the morning.

Um why?

Oh my god.

Yeah, I I could wake up, I wake
up like this, ready to get after

the day, you know.

Um, it's not even like I wake up
and I can go back to sleep.

It's like you're up now, go get
your coffee and get after.

Um and you know, I'm okay with
that because I get to sit with

God for a little while, right?

Like meditation is something
that I I struggle with deeply,

but um, there's a couple books
that I read in the morning, like

morning devotional type things,
and then um I'll sit with God

and just talk to him.

Uh do I do a lot of all the
talking, right?

I don't sit and listen to him
very often because it's still

difficult for me.

Um, because the squirrels that
go up in here, they don't it's

at 3 30, they start firing off.

Um, but then uh you know there's
a couple guys that I call every

single day around the same time
between you know like 10 a.m.

and 3 p.m.

One of them's craggie.

Um the hammer source, Cregatron.

Craigolingus.

Uh I try to come up with a new
way to say his name every day,

and I'm I'm I've started to run
out after the last couple years.

Um, so they're on recycle.

Yeah, Craig Cregaroni.

That's a good one.

Cragaroni, yeah.

But anyway, we just uh I share
my day, but in the morning, uh

before I leave the house,
typically I didn't do it this

morning, and I will I'll call
myself out for that.

But I do my nightly because it
just seems to work better for me

in the morning.

I can review the previous day
and all of the nonsense that

doesn't matter, I typically
forget, and I just remember the

what the real parts of what
happened, right?

What what's worth being shared,
and that's something that I've

really taken time with uh with
sponsor.

My sponsor is Jordan M.

And um he's put a uh he's put a
lot of weight into me being

really thorough because of that
that lack of transparency,

right?

So I try to be as thorough as
possible.

Like I even share my calorie
count because I've got a oh

let's go.

I compete in strong man, and I
have a coach, and he gives me

you know my weekly training
regimen, and he also tells me I

want to at this many calories,
and I have the same relationship

with food as I did with alcohol,
like any size pizza is a

personal paying pizza, you know
what I'm saying?

So I didn't I didn't get this
big by by uh you know eating

healthy, right?

Right.

I'm 6'2, 320 right now.

So um and you know, there's a
substantial amount of muscle in

there, right?

But there's a lot of not Um, so
that's why I add that calorie

count in there is to to keep me
accountable with people like

like Tony.

I share it with Tony.

Tony's like got this Adonis
figure right now and always

calls me out about he's like,
You're lifting too heavy, you're

gonna hurt yourself.

Stop eating McDonald's.

Why'd you talk about it?

And that's the thing.

Like, I'll be like, I screwed up
and I ate Taco Bell today.

Um so there's that transparency.

But then uh I I don't go to a
lot of meetings right now.

I just go I go to a couple a
week.

Uh Wednesday being our home
group, I try never to miss that

one.

And then um on Thursdays, if if
it's available, I go to Orlando

Recovery Center with a guy named
Brett, and we get to carry the

message into there.

And I haven't been able to go
the last couple weeks.

Um because he'll have he brings
other people as well, right?

You don't want the same story
every week, yeah.

Yeah, sure.

Um so I'll get to do that.

Um but the biggest thing for me
is is doing that that morning,

the morning routine, and then
having those phone calls.

If I don't make those phone
calls during the day, it's

especially then calling Craig.

Like Craig, Craig knows more
about my life than probably

anybody.

Um and it's it's really cool to
have that road dog that you know

he'll he'll uh I'll send in my
nightlies and he'll answer the

phone when I call him like
what's up, Craig A Lingus, and

he calls me Mattheus Helios, and
uh and then the first thing

he'll say is like I read your
inventory, what the fuck is

going on with this?

Yeah, yeah, immediately, right?

So those are the things that
really seem to be clicking for

me at the moment.

Um, because there's some peace,
like I've got that.

That's the one thing I always
wanted, and I tried to find it

in a bottle and a bag for so
long was peace.

And I have a little glimpse of
it right now, and it's pretty

cool, and I don't I don't care
to lose it, you know.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, dude, I love
that so much, man.

You know, for anyone that's
listening, obviously, a lot of

you are not gonna know Craigy.

We should describe Craiggy just
to just for the people.

Um, how how old do you think
Craiggy is?

Craiggy is 69 years old.

69 on the dot.

Craigie just retired.

He uh, if I were to do we call
him the hammer.

I don't know why we call him the
hammer.

Oh, you don't know the story.

Is well, is it is it because of
him sending his his ding dong

accidentally to someone else?

SPEAKER_01: No, so it was on a
and this is this is the story I

was told, right?

So uh our group, uh for those
listening, our group goes to

about between four and six men's
retreats a year, and on one of

these retreats, uh apparently
the hammer was exposed due to

some uh like um sleeping
medication that got it.

He got up in the middle of the
night to pee, and apparently the

dude is packing some heat.

Um, and this is a man that's you
know, he's five, six, probably a

hundred and fifty pounds.

Um weigh a lot, just walking
around with elephant trunk.

SPEAKER_00: So wow, good for
him.

See, Craiggy, look at that,
you're immortalized now, bud.

We love you.

Oh, oh meat musket.

Man, I love that so much, Matt.

Dude, what a what a what a solid
story, dude.

And I know, you know, like it's
really interesting because

there's we as alcoholics we're
not we're not unique in in the

way that we drank, but some of
us are unique in the way that we

get sober, um, which doesn't
really make us unique, it just

makes our experiences unique,
right?

Sure.

And uh and yours was definitely,
you know, yours was definitely

unique.

My my relapsing, which I had
many, right?

I have I have had like six
stints of more than two years of

sobriety at a time.

So like I've had a lot of little
stints of sobriety with

relapses, and I've had big
stints of sobriety with relapses

after.

And the thing that I can really
like honestly say more than

anything else is that there's no
amount of work I can do on

Monday that's going to ensure
that I stay sober on Friday.

Like, there's there's no amount
of, well, I did it really well

for five years, I'm gonna go
ahead and take a break now.

That doesn't inevitably lead to
maybe at year seven, me going,

you know, I think I could
probably do this normally now.

You know, I think it was a
phase, right?

Like, there's just no the
disconnection.

When the disconnection happens,
like eventually that one brain

cell that just sells bullshit
will sell it to the other one

that's gonna buy it, and I'll
go, Well, that's a great idea.

Let's let's go take something
that's gonna kill us.

SPEAKER_01: And uh, and so for
me, it's got it never looks like

that, right?

It never looks like let me take
something that's kill us.

It's like I just want to feel a
little different right now.

SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's a bit
unwind that spring that's wound

up so tight, right?

And 100%.

And so I have learned that the
program is designed to do for

alcoholism the same thing that
the steps are designed to do,

but it's designed to do that
over time in a you know, a way

that is not instant, that does
take work, it does take

addressing those those things
that scare me so much, like

being honest with you.

Uh, and uh, but it does work,
you know.

So for if anyone, if anyone
comes across this particular

episode that is, you know, still
actively drinking or newsing and

thinks wow, there's just no
solution to that, there really

is a solution.

Um, but the problem is you, just
like the problem was me, you

know, 100%.

So yeah.

And just you want to close us,
uh you want to close us out,

Maddie?

You got you got final thoughts
with Jack Handy?

Deep thoughts.

Final thoughts with Jack Handy.

SPEAKER_01: Um I guess the the
most important thing for me that

I heard uh in in all of my
struggles in the rooms was keep

coming back, never ever stop
showing up.

If you if you're anything like
Austin and I, if you drink like

me, if you use like me, if you
think like me, find a 12-step

recovery, find a room, and just
keep going until the miracle

happens because it will
eventually happen.

And something has happened in my
life, and I don't know if it's

permanent, but I know it is for
today.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, dude.

And you you know, you reminded
me that like have I'm sure

you've had this experience where
and maybe maybe you haven't had

it directly, but I've had
multiple times in multiple

different stints of sobriety
that somebody tells me my story,

but doesn't know my story,
right?

Like they tell me their story
and it hits me between the eyes

because he just told me mine,
yeah.

And and and that that feeling of
not being alone is just fucking

magnificent.

Like it's it's very palpable,
absolutely awesome, Matthew.

Dude, I fucking love you, bro.

Thank you so much for being on
here with me today.

And I look forward to bringing
you back on just for a banter

episode.

Like, and let's see where this
goes.

I I I truly want you to co-host
this show with me.

Like, I want you to be in the
game with me, dude.

Let's fucking down, let's do it,
let's run this thing.

Amazing, bro.

Amazing.

For anyone that's listening on
Spotify, Apple Podcasts,

YouTube.

Like andor subscribe or leave a
comment.

Do do something nice.

Uh, I would sure appreciate it.

Matt would sure appreciate it.

And uh, that's it.

We are going to get the hell out
of here, my friends.

My name is Austin.

I'll catch you guys on the next
episode.

Take