One Last Hit | A Sobriety and Addiction Recovery Podcast

SPEAKER_00: What is happening,
ladies and gentlemen?

My name is Austin, and welcome
to the One Last Hit podcast.

And once again, you guys are in
for a treat.

My good buddy Mark B is joining
us today.

Mark, what's happening, man?

How are you doing, buddy?

SPEAKER_01: Hey, Austin.

I'm doing great, man.

Thanks for having me, brother.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.

Good to have you.

So I've known Mark for God, a
couple of years now.

I I've heard I've heard pieces
of Mark's story.

And I know that the uh specimen
you see sitting in front of you

today was not the same one that
was homeless on the streets of

Chicago uh a number of years
back.

So I'm very, very excited to get
into your story, bud.

So tell me where does it all
begin, man?

Where did where what did your
childhood look like?

Where did you grow up?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.

So um, yeah, born in Chicago.

Um, most of my 54 years, uh, 51
years spent there, moved to

Orlando three years ago with my
family.

But yeah, I was born on the west
side of Chicago, where everyone

here is Chicago, which is an
amazing, beautiful city.

But yes, we have our our
troubled areas like most major

metropolitan areas.

So I was born uh on the wild,
wild west side, as they call it,

right, which is murder city uh
in the ghetto and a mostly

Puerto Rican bordering an
African-American neighborhood

filled with poverty like us, uh,
growing up that way and a lot of

gangs and violence and all of
that.

I spent uh, you know, up to
about first grade there.

And then we started moving uh to
different places, apartments and

you know, kind of subpar
neighborhoods, you know, lower

blue collar to poor.

We eventually made our way up to
getting to, you know, more

mid-level, safer suburban areas.

Um, you know, but still there
was always riffref that I

navigated to.

So yeah, born, you know, uh
there, and you know, 12 schools,

four high schools, youngest of
four, and just uh, you know, a

lot of calamity early on, right?

Just you kind of born into that
world.

SPEAKER_00: So did you say 12
schools?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.

So uh we just moved a lot,
right?

You know, um, you know, I'll
wait till you prompt me on the

fine family dynamics, but you
know, the dynamics dictated.

SPEAKER_00: Go for it, go for
it.

SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah.

So so I was the last of four
kids, right?

So my mother, she fell in love
with this, you know, man who

courted her, this handsome
16-year-old, you know, boy,

teenager.

She was 16, fell in love, first
love, lost her virginity, got

pregnant, and married him.

And that was my real father, who
has passed of cirrhosis decades

ago at 46 years old, got
arrested.

And he, I don't believe he ever
found the solution of any type

of sobriety, but obviously.

Um, but yeah, my mom was 23
years old, and I was the fourth

child to be born.

So imagine.

And he was yeah, it's you know,
crazy.

So the stories from her was he
was this charming debonair,

courting gentleman who uh picked
up a picked up a beer at 17

years old.

And she says almost immediately
in hindsight, he became an

alcoholic.

He was, you know, he was
addicted or dependent on alcohol

right away.

And and that man drank almost a
case of beer daily, you know,

through through the next couple,
a few decades of his life before

he passed from you know
cirrhosis and it killed him.

But um, she divorced him, you
know, when I was one year old,

married my stepfather who lived
across the street.

Um, they were friends of ours,
from my family, I guess, because

we were neighbors.

Uh, my stepfather Marty, she had
known him for years through her,

you know, through while she was
married to my real father and

all his kids, we were neighbors.

So he came home from Vietnam
after two tours in Nam and he

took on the responsibility, uh,
which he probably shouldn't have

of four children.

And he married my mother.

He became my stepfather.

So since I was like one and a
half, I grew up with him.

And, you know, fortunately or
unfortunately, he was a monster,

right?

He he was extremely controlling.

He was emotionally unavailable.

I lived with him until I was a
junior in high school when I

moved out, you know, and almost
a brawl with him.

And uh, you know, extreme
physical, emotional abuse from

him.

He almost killed me like three
times, almost bled out by the

time I was between three and
six, and just bashing my head

against banisters and all kinds
of, you know, just very severe,

sick, um, twisted child abuse
and a lot of, and I don't know

what happened to him.

I don't know, you know, his
mother was my godmother, and she

was a she was a bilingual
Catholic grade school teacher in

poverty in the ghetto that loved
the Lord, right?

And I'm like, well, I know, I
know she didn't inflict that on

him, you know, because you know,
obviously the ripple effect,

right?

Both of sobriety and grace and
and love and good parenting, as

well as the abuse and the trauma
and and all of that.

So I never knew.

And I still don't know where,
you know, what affected him to

such a degree to be so violent,
especially toward towards, you

know, a young child.

And I was the youngest, and he
started, you know, beating me at

three, and I had three older
siblings he really didn't put a

hand on.

So it was very odd, right?

I mean, and he continued that
abuse for years.

So there was instability
emotionally, there was

instability in in the house and
financially.

Um, you know, my mother was a
waitress.

Uh, she did everything she could
to take care of us.

We were on and off welfare.

He was a strong worker.

He's meticulously clean.

He, you know, he was a sergeant,
like I said, a NAM.

Maybe he had agent orange that
discolored his personality.

You know, I don't know what
happened, but um, you know, he

he worked for a factory, then he
worked for the United States

Post Office until he retired,
you know.

So he he did serve the
government, he served his

country, uh which I do respect
that part about him.

You know, nine years as a
sergeant, two tours in NAM and

decorated with a bronze star and
a purple heart.

And uh, but he never told me he
loved me, one of those deals,

right?

Never, never gave me the keys,
right?

Never gave me the map, never
showed me how to, you know, make

healthy decisions as a young
man, uh, never affirmed me.

And and that really took its
toll, right?

So that's why the schools, all
the neighborhoods, always trying

to fit in with new crowds, you
know, and um, you know, the

anxious apartness we talk about,
being in a big room but feeling

uncomfortable and uh all of
that.

So yeah, childhood had a lot of
calamity.

You know, I I do believe that,
you know, I for me, alcoholic

and addict to be extreme.

I'm a hopeless variety, right?

You know, I'm a late-stage
chronic um, you know, alcoholic

and drug addict.

Uh, and I think if the abuse
wasn't there and he was loving

and affirming and kind like my
mother was, I still would have

been that.

I just believe that.

And, you know, some people buy
into the genetic predisposition

of alcoholism and drug drug
addiction, and some people

don't.

What I know is, man, my family's
riddled with alcoholics.

My dad died 40 feet.

My dad drank beer, he drank beer
to the extent from 16 to 46 to

shut his organs down and kill
his liver, just beer.

He never touched a just a shot
of nothing.

Yeah.

So, anyways, yeah, I think I
would have been that way anyway.

So, anyway.

SPEAKER_00: How did it feel?

I mean, growing up, so I if I
picture, I've got a

three-year-old at home.

And if I could picture that that
poor young boy being somehow

physically abused in his home,
you know, I can't even imagine

the effect that that would have
on him.

Do you recall what it felt like
to be you as a kid?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know,
great question.

And like like you, and I know
you you're uh uh a proud and

grateful father of a lot of kids
in a big family.

And I'd have one beautiful
angel, my daughter Angelia,

who's going to be nine in
October.

And um and I've thought about it
since day one, right, when I was

holding her at Northwestern
Hospital downtown Chicago on

October 11th of 2017, that this
gift, this beautiful prize that

I never thought that I would
have or deserve from what I what

I came out of what I went
through.

But, you know, I went through
years of therapy.

Uh, I still am a see a
psychiatrist.

Uh, I was diagnosed years ago
with complex PTSD to an acute

level.

Um, and and I just want to
preface this as well for anyone

who might be watching this that
may have experienced something,

some type of deep trauma, might
have a, you know, an emotional

and mental disorder and a
psychological disorder like

myself, or or in a relationship
with somebody that's afflicted

with this, that, you know, for
years I used my abuse as a

crutch to hate the world and
hate everyone.

And every everything I did, I
excused.

If you went through what I went
through, you grew up in the

streets, the violence, the
fighting, the gangs, you grew up

in my household, you had that
abuse, you would have done this

too.

And really, what I was doing is
I was just excusing my behavior.

You know, after I became an
adult, I knew right from wrong.

And of course, there were
certain certain things I could

not control often, but there
were certainly things that I

needed to take responsibility
for and change.

And through my road through
recovery and sobriety and

healing and change and unpacking
all that, I've been able to take

responsibility for my life, you
know, you know, coupled with

having a sustained mental
illness, you know, and I really

do have that.

So that's part of my story.

But as a little boy, I was
frightened, man.

I was scared constantly.

You know, it was like I was
walking around with Lucifer in

the house many a day.

And I can remember vividly, I
remember the beatings vividly.

You know, when I say a complex
PTSD, same thing as a soldier

coming home, waking up in the
middle of the night, you know,

with a knife in his hand, like
he's walking through the jungle

in the bush, you know, with the
Viet Con, you know, around him.

And it's not always that severe,
but all the mild, milder, but

very damaging emotional, um, the
emotional turmoil and the

aspects emotionally, I still
have, right?

Like I still have a head full of
trauma.

I still, I still have to deal
with that, you know.

And I would love to say, hey,
I've been sober, you know,

besides four days, I had a
relapse.

I've been sober for 15 plus
years, right?

I entered AA in 2011 and got
sober finally, had a four-day

relapse in 15, have been sober
since.

And my life is incredibly
radically changed and

transformed through that work.

Uh, but the truth about me is in
the spirit of transparency, that

I suffer greatly emotionally.

And any given day I can wake up
and that is just activated.

Um, and it's hard, it's hard for
me to navigate through the world

in my head, right?

But as a little boy, I was
petrified, you know, and and uh

and I acted out a lot, you know,
quite a quite a few, quite a

bit, actually.

SPEAKER_00: So yeah.

No, I I I'm just I was just
trying to kind of like picture

that in my own mind, like what
that looked and felt like.

And so I would imagine by the
time how old were you when you

took your first uh drink or
drug?

What first time you caught a
buzz?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.

So, you know, we've you know, my
my stepfather wasn't an

alcoholic, but when he drank, he
drank uh VO and he drank to

excess and drunkenness.

Um and he was a weekend warrior,
or he drank, you know, beer, but

to an you know, so he would
drink on the weekends.

Um in our house, my grandparents
all drank alcoholics.

So I was drinking beer at you
know, at three years old,

sipping it, all of that.

When I caught my first buzz, I
was probably around 10 or 11 at

my sister, one of my sisters'
first weddings, but I was

constantly around liquor, every
family occasion.

We were big drinking family, all
of that.

So uh, but yeah, I mean, if you
asked me what's when's when did

you have your first drunk or
higher veniberator?

It would have been about 10 or
11, I would say.

SPEAKER_00: And and what would
happen, like so from the age of

10, when you first discovered,
wow, there's a solution to the

way that I'm feeling, how does
it progress from that point

forward?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, at
that point, I was so young.

I I uh you know, throughout my
junior high years, we would you

know, remarkably so, which we'll
get into my story later of the

type of alcoholic and addict I
am.

I didn't get higher drunk um
until my mid-teens, you know, it

was kind of kind of odd.

I think sports, you know, I I
did navigate to sports.

I played a ton of sports as a
kid and through, you know,

throughout most of my life.

So I think that helped a lot,
you know.

Um, but yeah, we'd sneak away
with a couple beers and you

know, marble reds and go to the
park and cough and drink the

beer, which I hated the taste of
it and stuff.

So yeah, you know, I just and I
I did not know, I did not

identify or understand at 10
years old, like, oh, this makes

me feel oozy and fun, that this
was a solution for me.

It didn't correlate.

But when it did, you know, hell
broke loose, right?

When it did, you know, uh, my
middle teens, that's when, you

know, the light went on, like,
oh, I could get a little

temporary relief from the way I
feel, which I really needed.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

And so middle teens, was there a
was there a catalyst at that

time, or was it social pressure
that that kind of reintroduced

you to drugs and alcohol?

Or what was it that really
kicked you off?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so typical
high school, you know, bouncing

around.

And I, you know, and you know,
freshman year, three sport, let

them in, you know, sophomore
year, two and a half sports,

because I quit you halfway
through the season because my

coach pissed me off.

Here comes, you know, the
emotional, you know, ego,

resentment, anger, you know,
junior year, um yeah, one sport,

and then none my senior year,
which is a shame.

I was a really good athlete,
right?

And I had potential to do a lot.

Nope.

Yeah.

And um, but why I'm why I'm uh
how that correlates to my

drinking and drugging is, you
know, I never realized till

years later that the increase in
alcohol and marijuana decreased

my commitment to my sports.

And because of the alcohol
marijuana, I had consequences,

crashing cars, fighting in
public, where I had

consequences, financial
consequences, where I had to get

a job in high school to start
paying this stuff as well, which

I couldn't be committed to a
sports, you know, practice and

game regimen.

So uh, but yeah, you know, when
I started drinking in high

school, I was crazy.

I'm an extremely extroverted,
one of the most extroverted

people that most people meet.

I have that high energy level
always had.

That is my disposition, I was
born with.

And imagine that fueled by
alcohol, hyper energy, um, you

know, you know, throw throw
mental illness on there, and I'm

wild.

So people who love me were like,
Borelli's absolutely fucking

crazy, and he's Orion.

But if he starts swinging, run,
because he's gonna throw the

whole place up for grabs.

And I was that guy, you know.

So yeah, but I loved it.

I absolutely love being drunk,
and you know, I love marijuana,

and those were my first two, you
know, substances that I just ran

with for through the rest of my
high school years before I got

to the harder stuff.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and no, and
you know, nobody in high school

says, you know, take a few
drinks, smoke a couple of

doobies, have a good time.

And nobody equates to, you know,
in my case, it was homeless in

Mexico City, in your case,
homeless in Chicago, right?

Smoking crack, shooting heroin,
doing what we do.

What what's the progression?

Like, how do we get to that
point?

SPEAKER_01: Oh man, you know,
it's so hard.

There's so much there.

I'm really gonna work hard to
give you the Cliff Notes

version, but chronologically,
for it to make sense and kind of

tie it together Austin.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: So after high
school, uh, you know,

remarkably, um, I had a major
injury.

I severed my left Achilles
tendon a month after graduation.

I barely graduated, not because
I wasn't intelligent enough.

I moved out my junior year high
school.

You know, um, I got no credits,
half a junior year.

I smoked weed and drank daily,
chase girls, and you know, that

was when, you know, the rap era
and public enemy and easy and

all that stuff in the late 90s.

So I was in that scene, going to
clubs, dancing, house music, all

that stuff.

And and then I, you know, then I
moved back home.

I hated it.

I moved back home uh my senior
year, and I had a transfer

school, so you had to get into
my fourth high school, and I had

to buckle down and focus where I
wasn't going to graduate high

school.

So I did do that.

I had ambitions to go back and
wrestle again.

I had wrestled, you know,
varsity my sophomore year, and I

skipped junior year because of,
you know, the other things I was

involved in.

But my plan was let's go.

And then one drunken night, I
crashed a car, you know, 17

years old, drunk as heck, you
know, totaled my sister's car,

it in a fight, and there it
goes.

I have to work to pay it off.

I can't wrestle that year.

And um uh so, anyways, uh I
barely graduated high school,

but I did graduate.

I sever my Tilly's tendant on my
left leg, making five bucks an

hour at a bar, you know, washing
dishes, and that sidelines me

for six months in a cast.

I don't, you know, I try to go
to junior college and I'm going

to junior college and night
school, and I get my first

career position at a computer
company downtown Chicago across

the street from a Sears Tower,
which is really cool.

So now I'm in corporate America
where I was supposed to be the

whole time.

You know, that's actually where
I was supposed to be because,

you know, business uh, you know,
just came naturally to me.

Um, you know, I I uh so I
started working, you know,

full-time.

I got engaged, that blew up.

We were too young, fell in love
with another woman, moved

downtown Chicago, became
independent, working full-time

as a computer salesman, and
dating a woman.

And I was possessively jealous
of her.

She was beautiful, much older
than me, and we were madly in

love, and she left me.

And this is really key because
this is kind of a pattern from

my life.

And she said to me, she says,
you know, it's a shame what they

did to you because I want to
grow old with you, I want to

have a family with you, I'm
madly in love with you.

We have perfect chemistry
interests, but you don't trust

me, and you are broken inside,
and I can't stay along for this.

And she goes, I'm so sorry what
you've been through.

Um, and it was the right thing
for her to do.

And I had an anger outburst at
work after that computer company

three and a half years as a
successful computer salesman for

an Apple Macintosh company in
the in the early 90s, now it's

almost mid-90s, and she left me,
and I also lost my job.

And I was alone in my apartment.

I never forgot.

I sat there crying by myself in
Little Italy, Chicago, and I

called the guy and he dropped an
eight ball off.

And I became immediately,
immediately, and I had dabbled

with cocaine a lot.

And when I first did cocaine, I
spent all night doing it.

It was in that, it was in that
cast at 18 years old when I

server my gillies.

Some guy brought it out, and I
just did lines all night.

I loved it.

I'm like, my God, I love every
narcotic.

Everything I've done, I loved.

I've absolutely loved every
ride.

You know, people say, hey, my
best day drunk is, you know,

worse than my whatever it is,
than I, you know, my worst day

silver.

They did it wrong.

That is the most absurd,
bullshit thing I've ever heard,

man.

Before it got bad, it was
awesome.

I've seen Pink Floyd on
mushrooms and the best

hydroponic weed, you know, like
94 at Soldier Field Chicago,

right?

Sitting at the 50-yard line of
my beloved Chicago Bears

watching.

Like, listen, that wasn't me
shitting myself, trying to get

dope, climbing out the project's
window in the ghetto.

So, no, my you know, my worst I
was not, right?

Like, I don't know what you did,
but let me tell you, I liked

almost every ride.

And even at the end, when it
was, you know, when it was so

pathetic and so hopeless, dude.

You know, I needed it.

I couldn't, I couldn't deal with
reality.

So um to fast forward, all
right.

So I I'm now through the
mid-90s, you know, I lost a

corporate job.

I start waiting tables.

Excellent waiter, some of the
nicest neighborhoods downtown

Chicago, really successful, two,
three hundred dollars a night.

I'm a head waiter and a
bartender.

This is 95.

That's a lot of money, right?

Um, so I'm making two, 300 a
night.

My rent's$575.

I'm three months behind on rent.

I make that in two nights in the
month.

You know, I'm behind on rent.

I have baggies all over the
house.

I'm smoking weed, staying up
three, four days in a row,

grinding it out.

And, you know, I enter my first
treatment center, first of 17

treatments from 1997 to 2005.

I go to 17 treatments and
detoxes, inpatient, men's

residential, uh, first through
benefits, then, you know, I'm

walking in the skid row hay
market, the lowest of the low.

That's where Chicago police are
are taking homeless drunks that

are defecating themselves and
they're dropping them off at the

front, right?

So I'm I'm riding that that
train now uh towards the end.

But I really try to get my life
together a number of times.

And like it says in the big
book, he kind of cleans himself

up, he kind of builds up a
little bit of a future, bright

future, and then he tears it all
down again.

And and that's the hopelessness
and the powerless of what I was

afflicted with, right?

And I I fully comprehended and
understood a path to sobriety.

I knew tons of people who were
sober.

I was in and out of the rooms.

I probably went to a thousand to
1,500 recovery, you know,

meetings, 12-step meetings.

And I know people get sober a
lot of different ways, but for

me, I was going to NA, mostly,
mostly AA, NA, and CA.

And, you know, I was well versed
in it.

You know, I was a perfect
treatment client.

I knew all the things to say and
what they were going to break it

down.

Um, the medical, emotional, you
know, aspect of how, you know,

how it afflicts us and what the
solution was.

I never doubted it at all, but I
had absolutely zero willingness

to really, really get serious
and do the work.

So what my what what it looked
like from 97 to 2005, in in my

mind, Austin, that seems like 20
years, but it was a short period

of time, but it seems like a
couple of decades of my life,

man, because it was just this
unbelievable calamity,

consequence-filled, you know, uh
mayhem of life, just completely

insane.

And I was good in business,
right?

I was a good recruiter, I'm a
great salesman, and you know,

you know, uh I never owned my
own company, but you know, I've

been with my company 14 and a
half years as a chief operating

officer, you know, extremely
successful with them, you know.

And uh so what my in the 90s, I
went back into sales, I went

back into mortgage, I went into
the mortgage banking, I went

into executive recruiting for a
couple of contingent retained uh

firms, and I was hired as
operation manager, branch

manager, building teams under
me, struggle.

Knocking it out three, six
months, right?

And just I picking up again,
right?

Never really being able to put
any time together.

At times, what I could do is put
30, 45 days, go to a meeting or

two a week and kind of live in
the rooms and sit my ass in a

seat of recovery, but not really
do the deep, intense, you know,

work on myself emotionally and
spiritually through the guidance

of a sponsor and the literature
and the steps as our pathway to

freedom.

And therefore, I guess a worse
relapse and a worse relapse in

another institution, another
institution, and going through

some relationships and
eventually met my current wife,

who is a Christian woman who's
never smoked a cigarette, seen

anybody drink.

You know, she's in a completely
sheltered, real, wholesome,

genuine, uh, organic Christian
family who love God and love the

world and love people and had
absolutely 100% opposite life

experience than me.

And I meet her and she falls in
love with me.

And imagine I have a
relationship with God.

I'm in and out of a big
evangelical church.

I'm doing service periodically
at that church.

I'm leaving that church and
going to the projects and

smoking crack.

I was afflicted.

You know, I was afflicted by
something evil.

And, you know, I'm by myself, 26
years old at Willow Creek

Community Church, you know,
7,000-person beautiful church.

And, you know, weeping on stage,
getting baptized with no one

there but me.

Like I was really trying to find
a solution.

I really wanted to change.

And there were so many times I
was on my knees crying, weeping

to God, like, why won't you help
me?

You know I'm weak.

You know I can't do this.

And I don't have the answers why
those prayers weren't heard,

right?

And people can speculate because
everyone's certain about what

God is.

I'm not certain.

But what I do know, right?

You know, everyone's just an
authority and they know

everything, right?

You know, and I'm like, you
know, I don't know.

I would like to think, well, I
was gonna drag myself through

the mud and the muck, and I was
gonna gain a life experience

that could help some people,
right?

You know, I was gonna gain a
life experience that when I

became a dad, I would never put
my hands on her, abuse her, or

torment her like I was
tormented, that I would be a

changed man and I that therefore
I would have purpose and I just

had to go through what I had to
go through.

Um, but what happened when I met
her is I continued this process

with my sweet wife, right?

Like I'm working as a sales
director at a large mortgage

banker broker, making good
money.

We're engaged.

This is like 2003, 2004.

I'm kind of in and out of AA.

I'm, you know, putting 30 days
together and picking it up

again.

We're going to church twice a
week.

I'm sure I'm serving in a
children's ministry and I'm

binging on the crack in the
projects for three and four days

once a month, right?

And I'm losing jobs and barely
making it.

So 2005, I go through two more
treatment centers from First

Capital, uh, the brokerage firm
I'm working for.

They put me to hospital, you
know.

I stole my blue crust blue
shield.

And you know, I relapsed on both
of those after those in a short

time.

And um, and I remember the day.

Uh it was a Friday night.

Uh, I took the team that I
hired, groomed, mentored,

managed, and directed downstairs
at we were really swanky, bougie

new uh contemporary corporate
building along the Chicago River

in Chicago.

And I went downstairs, I bought
a mall of beer and I bought

myself one.

And I drank that beer, and I had
like 30 days, 32 days again for

like literally like the 50th
time.

And um, and I went home and I
said, I'm going.

She's like, please don't go, I'm
going, but I'm not gonna stay in

the project something.

I'm just gonna cop in the
courtyard between the two

projects and I'm gonna I'm gonna
come home.

Uh and I never went back to
work.

For the next six years, I would
stay drunk or high every single

day.

I took the engagement ring off
her finger.

I sold it for 20% of what I paid
for it.

Uh, I used that money within 48
hours on crack cocaine.

Um, I sold everything in the
house.

I cash advanced all our credit
cards.

I fully bankrupt us.

I borrowed and basically stole
money because I borrowed with no

intention to pay back from
everyone I could.

And then I found myself probably
six months into this mayhem in

trouble because now I couldn't
get a dime from anything or

anybody.

So it just hit me one day.

I can go on the street, pretend
that my uh that I left my locked

my keys in the car with my dog
and asked somebody for taxi

money to get home.

And at this time, I'm not that
burnt up.

And I became a professional con
artist to the tune of$100 an

hour for the next six years,
conservatively, in the tune of

probably about$350,000 that I
created with my sponsor, my

first sponsor, a conservative
estimation of what I had taken

from society.

And I became a thief and robbing
people.

And uh, you know, and I lived
like a like a savage.

I was up for three, four, five
days, and then I'd pass out.

I was, you know, just massively
addicted to crack cocaine.

Heroin came in the picture.

I was overwhelmingly addicted to
heroin at that point.

So we called on the streets of
Chicago double breasted, is when

you're addicted to both.

So I had the two monsters that I
was addicted to.

And uh, you know, every day of
my life was insane.

I literally get up, I would dry
shave with the razor.

My wife was the makeup artist,
so I take makeup and put it on

my face.

So I didn't look with the, you
know, the dope fiend addict I

was.

I would put a shirt and a tie
on, and I would have like a

traveling suitcase.

And I had a con that literally
for years often, for years, I

had people give me hundreds of
dollars, but there was never a

day where I couldn't cost her a
couple hundred dollars ever, not

one time from 2005 to 2011,
where I was finally hopefully

arrested for the last time as a
homeless dope fiend, you know,

living in an abandoned building
next to the projects.

And I'd been there for a couple
of years.

So, you know, insane things
happened, you know.

And what happened is I finally
went to homelessness.

But my sweet wife, who was my
fiance at the time, she stayed

in that lifestyle with me for
three years, having faith that

one day God would change me.

Um, and then eventually I walked
away from her and dexter, our

dog, our Weimariner, who I never
saw again.

And I went to the streets and I
was okay with that.

I went to an abandoned building
three doors down from the

projects in Murder City on the
west side of Chicago in an

abandoned garage with dope
fiends and hustlers and pimps

and prostitutes and needles and
syringes and baggies all over.

And that's that would become my
life for the next two years.

I would live, you know,
throughout, you know, um, you

know, hopping into a homeless
shelter, living in alleys, uh,

living under cardboard, living
in abandoned buildings, sleeping

in the first time I went to the
projects in 1997, I grew up

fighting on the street.

You know, I ran with the gang.

You know, I was an athlete, but
I literally ran with the gang,

gangster recycled Chicago.

Let me tell you something.

Even me going to the projects
the first time to contract with

my friend who was who got a full
ride in Division I wrestling.

We wrestled together, Kyle.

Um, I'm I was scared, man.

Walking to the projects is no
joke.

It's just like TV, right?

I mean, it's no joke.

I mean, you the cartel in
Mexico, I know your story.

Yeah, no joke, right?

Like, this is like, listen,
you're risking your life.

I went from being scared to go
there the first time, going

there hundreds of times,
eventually living sometimes for

a week, sleeping in the
stairwells, right?

With other acts and dope things.

So that's the insanity of the
transformation of how this thing

can take you.

So um, so that's that's where I
went.

That's how it happened.

And there's a thousand stories I
can tell you about that period

from 2005 to 2011.

But I literally not for one day
besides the the few, you know,

the handful of times I was
incarcerated for 17 days for 28

days, did I breathe a silver
breath?

Right.

Um it's crazy.

SPEAKER_00: In your story, I'm
I'm struck by the faith that

your wife had to stick around
and to watch you go through all

of that, knowing that she's
absolutely powerless to do

anything about it but pray.

Um and now you guys have a
family together.

Like that is incredible, Mark.

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: Yes, he had the
faith and the willingness that I

I never could have.

I you know, I would I would have
jumped ship.

I'm just you know, call me weak,
you know, uh selfish, but it's

it's it really is incredible,
you know, 25 years now together

and um got married in 2014.

So I guess uh May 3rd was our
May 24th, yeah.

I guess 12 years of marriage and
almost a nine-year-old beautiful

girl.

And we've been through a lot,
man.

A lot of life, dude.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no kidding.

And so in all of that, 17
treatment centers, homeless,

hustling on the streets of
Chicago, which by the way, as

you were talking, and I've only
been to Chicago one time, but I

remember when I was living in
Mexico thinking I was gonna do a

little import-export business.

And and I asked him, I said,
Well, okay, how can you get like

where can I get some kilos in
the United States?

And they said there were two
cities that the cartel could

could confirm get kilos in, no
problem, and it was Miami and

Chicago.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like Chicago is a huge, you
know, a huge pathway, man, you

know, and I mean the heroin of
Chicago is, I mean, dude, you go

to neighborhoods, and I mean,
there's just a neighborhood

there's a hundred corners
selling heroin, right?

Competing against each other.

So it's super pure, right?

You you really got garbage
because hey, the demand's there

and the competition's stiff,
right?

You know, you can't have a
shitty pizza place in Brooklyn.

You know what I mean?

You know, they've been cooking
that pizza pie for 140 years,

right?

Like you're not gonna get away
with a dominoes type pizza at

Brooklyn.

That's how it is in Chicago, but
yeah, it's it's it's a it's

another world.

And, you know, anyone who's
watching this, I have to say,

because you know how proud I am
with Chicago, you know, with my

Chicago tattoo is it is one of
the world-class, unbelievable,

beautiful cities in the world.

There's nine million people in
the greater metropolitan area.

We have our ghetto areas, but
besides that, it is fantastic.

I miss it dearly.

Man, it is just beautiful.

And so is New York and Boston
and San Francisco.

They all have their poverty,
they all have their drug

addiction and crime, and they
all have their ghetto areas and

the homeless crisis.

But what what a beautiful place.

And I'm grateful for that, man.

I am so grateful.

As a successful man today, as I
sit here um talking to you, and

I needed this very much, man.

I've been my my my my program,
my spiritual program for my

recovery and my development,
continued development of my life

has been anemic.

I have not been doing nearly as
much as I I once did, and I've

been selfish taking time with my
family, going on vacation every

other week because I work
remotely and I can grab a laptop

and go.

Um so this is really good for my
soul to remember where I came

from.

You know, it just filled me up
already, just remembering the

torment.

I mean, there's a thousand
stories, dude.

And I know you have them and
other people, but I live like a

savage, man.

I went months being on shower,
months, you know, and guns put

to my head, robbing people.

I eventually started robbing cab
drivers and a couple violently,

you know, two felonies
incarcerated, facing, you know,

six to eight years in prison,
and somehow, by the grace of

God, changed the judge's mind.

And he told me I was going.

He says, it's not a matter of
if, but it's how long.

I'll see you in 45 days, and
threw my file down.

He was disgusted with me.

And I went back and and they
asked me the day before my court

date when I was locked up.

And they said, you know, tell us
about all of this.

And I said, I did every crime.

I've done so many more.

You know, I've been through 17
treatments and detoxes.

I've tried to get sober and
recover for years.

I'm hopeless.

I've lost everything in my life.

I haven't seen my family for
almost six years.

Uh, I left my fiance, this
beautiful Christian woman

behind.

And I said, you know, I said,
maybe if I go to prison, maybe I

could, you know, do three to six
years or three to four years on,

because it's two for one in the
prison penal system in Illinois.

So if I get six to eight years,
I do three to four years in

prison and kind of rebuild my
life and have hope.

But at that point, I wanted to
die every day for real.

Like when people say they want
to die, but I never wanted to

kill myself.

It's really interesting.

And I never put my finger on it.

I want to die every single day.

I live in torment and hell
alone.

I'm not homeless for two years,
dude.

Like I'm walking down the street
and there's a piece of

cardboard.

I remember this next to a dry
cleaner, and I just lay down in

a dirt field in a manual lot and
full of cardboard and pass out

for 48 hours.

Woke up, I had spider bites,
infection.

It was crazy.

I live like that, right?

So that life, and then I dry up,
I detox for six weeks, I put 30

pounds on, and three and a half
months later, they're like, hey,

we're gonna sentence you today.

And I'm like, okay.

You know, I had hope.

I was praying.

I I was, you know, I was going
to meetings in jail, and um and

I said, okay, you know, I'm
alive somehow, and I'm willing

to rebuild my life.

I'm willing to not ask anyone
for help.

I'm willing to not bullshit or
negotiate any terms with anyone.

And that's how I got sober.

That's how I recovered.

As I accepted nothing from
anyone, I shut my fucking mouth

and I got busy and got to work.

I didn't look for praise, for
affirmation.

I wasn't screaming, I'm sober.

Look at me.

All that went away, dude.

I put my nose to the grindstone.

I got busy and I was sincere and
I stopped lying and bullshitting

people, and I never stole the
thing again in my life.

I was a felon thief who was
robbing people for years.

And since May 3rd of 2011,
hopefully my last thing, you

know, uh, you know, jail date or
incarceration or arrest date.

I, you know, I've definitely had
defects and have made mistakes,

right?

And some that I'm not proud of.

Uh, but I'm not the same man who
walked in and I've radically

transformed a lot of that stuff
through help and faith and you

know, spiritual work and action.

But, you know, the one thing I
am, I'm I won't say proud

because I don't like hearing
that sometimes, but I was given

the willingness and the ability
somehow to not be a thief

anymore.

And man, that's good, you know.

Now I've stole some peace of
mind from my wife because I can

still be an unsober dick and
selfish, you know, you know, and

impatient, which I was yesterday
to an extreme level, I order

immense.

And uh um, but yeah, I didn't
have to be that guy anymore.

Man, what a relief.

I could earn my life, right?

You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm curious,
as somebody who wanted to get

sober, now maybe not maybe
earnestly wanted to get sober,

but but didn't have quite the
willingness to do the work.

What was your turning point?

Like, what did it look like when
you actually went down the path?

And and this is probably this is
before the four-day relapse,

because I think you genuinely
wanted sobriety prior to that

and just had a relapse, am I
correct?

SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, I mean,
you know, when we look like what

changed, right?

Um well, I mean, everything was
burnt down to answer three

years, right?

And and then I came to in jail,
went through my detox, which was

six weeks.

It was it was brutal.

Started to get some semblance of
reality.

The fog was lifting, and I found
myself facing jail time, serious

prison time, and uh, and it was
okay with that.

And um and it took me about six
weeks.

If they would have let me out
anytime within the first six

weeks, I was plotting.

I'm like, once I go back to my
abandoned place, my abandoned

home in the abandonion we call
them in Chicago, um, all my

stuff's probably gonna be gone.

I'm gonna have to recoup all,
you know, the dress calls to go

hustle and be a con artist, and
and I'm planning it.

I'm planning exactly how long
does it take me for six weeks,

you know, every day.

How long is it gonna take me to
get there, to get get an outfit,

get dressed, hit the streets,
start my hustle, get money, and

get dope.

It's exactly what I was planning
for six weeks.

But I had a court date six weeks
in, and I heard his response,

and I knew I was going to
prison, and I had a shift that

night.

And I'm not a religious guy.

I used to be, but I'm not.

I'm a spiritual man for sure,
but not I have no interest in

religion in any capacity
whatsoever.

And that's my choice, and I can
freely speak that.

And I am completely okay with
how anyone else believes.

If they're atheist, agnostic,
the Allah, Buddha, I don't care,

you know.

Um, but when it comes to my
faith at that time, that what

really worked for me was more of
a religious dedication.

So I got my Bible at that time,
which I don't do anymore.

And uh I read, I meditated, I
prayed over it, and it it did

affect me.

I did have a spiritual, you
know, transformation, a

beginning of one in jail.

And I knew that I was gonna stay
sober in my mind, for me.

Like I knew that I was gonna
pursue sobriety.

I wasn't arrogant enough to say
I can stay sober.

No, no, don't get me wrong.

I was scared to relapse, but I
had a confidence that I could do

it.

I had a confidence that I can
get a really I had tons of

practical, tangible AA
experience and knowledge, mostly

from other people that I've been
in a relationship with for

years.

People who still loved me, saw
me come in and out, and they

were sober for years.

And, you know, my spiritual
mentor, who I met in '99, and he

saw me go through five of those
17 treatments.

And he he sponsored me for years
later, right?

You know, when I finally got
sober.

And uh, he's still in my life
today, older gentleman, you

know, probably at the end of his
life.

But, you know, I knew these
people, I knew the truth, and

that there was a solution that
that made sense.

So um, you know, what happened
for me is when I was let go,

which was crazy.

So they interviewed me the night
before my court hearing, Austin,

and they asked me, they say, I
can make a recommendation about

where we put you, what
penitentiary, you know, what

level, if there is a recovery
program within that where you

can go to meetings, uh, but
you're a two-time felon, and one

of us, you know, an aggravated
robbery of a cab driver, so you

could be a meeting or max.

And he's like, But I want to
give you the opportunity to

share with me your perspective
and tell me answer some of these

questions that'll help my
evaluation.

I think he was trying to say, he
probably looked, I mean, let's

just be realistic, right?

He probably looked at, okay,
here's a guy who doesn't look

like the life he was living.

And after I cleaned up, I
didn't.

I didn't look like some hardened
criminal dope fiend after two,

you know, after three and a half
months.

I put 30 pounds on, I got my
weight back.

I'm doing push-ups and working
out in jail.

And and I could I could speak
articulately and communicate

with him.

And I told him exactly what I
told you.

I didn't like like like Denzel
in Flight, I could not lie.

Remember, he asked the question,
were you drunk?

And he just and I was, and I
didn't even have any, I didn't

have any problems answering it.

But just like that, I told him
the truth, the unfiltered, 100%

honest truth about who I was,
what I was, where I came from.

And I said, Hey, if this will do
good for my life, that I might

be able to rebuild a life and do
some good in the world.

I fully accept that the
ramifications for my actions.

I am guilty and I've done more,
a lot more that you don't know

of.

And I and he's like, tell me
about your past.

And I told him about Lynette.

I told him about our bright
future.

I told him about the career, the
up and down.

You know, just you know, some
years ago, I was this guy ready

to get married to this beautiful
person with a beautiful dog and

a little home and hope.

And I just, you know, I'm sick
and I've been through a lot, you

know.

And he was the Southside Chicago
Irish guy.

I was a Westside Italian
American guy.

And, you know, and I didn't know
what his take would be, but he

pre-he said, I really appreciate
you being so candid with me.

And he goes, and I really hope
that you have a life someday.

I do, you know, I'm gonna make
my recommendation.

He didn't tell me what it was.

I went to court the next day.

I'm definitely going to prison,
it's just a matter of how long.

And after like four and a half
hours in a cell, waiting for,

you know, the judge and uh my
public defender, he came back

and said, They're releasing you
in the morning.

If you sneeze the wrong way for
the next two years, you're going

to prison for eight years, no
good time.

Right.

And I just sat there.

I just didn't know what to do.

And then eventually I just
jumped up in the air and it felt

I never had a good vertical as
an athlete.

I'm and I swear to God, I think
I might have touched the ceiling

of that cell.

And the very next day, they
dropped me off at A Safe Haven,

a four-month program that I
could not work.

I had to be a rigorous program,
really no movement at all

besides going to meetings and
getting like social security

card and stuff like that.

And I surrendered and I was a
fully surrendered person.

You know, I prayed daily, I
followed directions.

You know, the first consequence
I got of that program was I lied

to them to tell them I had to go
to the Social Security office to

fill out some more paperwork for
my Social Security card because

I didn't have a I didn't have a
birth certificate of state ID or

Social Security card on my
person for six years, right?

Um, so I had to get all that
stuff, right?

And um and I lied to them when I
went to a meeting.

Well, one of the staff members
there goes to that morning

meeting in Evanston, Illinois,
right by Northwestern

University.

And he saw me there, I
unbeknownst to me, and I got

back, like, where were you?

I'm like, I was at the meeting.

They said, you know what, Mark?

Let me tell you something.

We've had thousands of men come
in and out of this program over

the years.

Never one time has one lied to
us about this.

I'm like, about what?

They're like, You were at an AA
meeting at the Evanston Club

this morning, and one of our
faculty members saw you there.

Two date, we commend you because
you truly have a desire to stay

sober.

There's no doubt about it.

Nobody's fucking lying here to
go to the Social Security office

for their car and go into a
meeting.

So obviously, you want sobriety.

We get that.

But this is a safe havens
program, it's not Mark's

program.

So you do have a consequence.

And they locked me down for a
week, but they smirked and

they're like, but good job.

And you know what they meant.

They knew they had a guy there
out of the 45 men, who knows?

I don't know anybody else who
got sober.

You know, I keep it, I kept
track of a lot of the guys for a

couple years, but most of them
went back to prison, never heard

from them again.

But I had a desire, right?

Um, and then yeah, man, and then
they transferred me after that

four months.

Uh, you know, I had a probation
officer I reported to.

I could not leave the state.

I had very restricted, but I was
able to get a job and I did.

And I remember in December of
nine of 2011, you know, four or

five months, five months sober,
um, you know, I was able to

finally get a sponsor, which I
did immediately and started

working steps and I got my first
job as a bill collector.

I have the pay stuff here.

Do you know in two weeks how
much I made?

I made$217 in two weeks take
home pay as a bill collector.

Right.

So now, as as a a C level
executive of a company, for you

know, I've been with there 14
years.

I, you know, I've been A COO for
11, that keeps me humble, man.

It keeps me on the right track.

But you know what?

What was a sign of, you know,
Austin?

I was really like, listen, I
didn't have a car for the first

five years of my sobriety.

I lived very simple.

And let me tell you something.

I was stress-free, dude.

The light went on.

I got busy.

I got busy in programs, drive to
being a service.

And another thing that happened
to me is I was, and this maybe

this contributed to my relapse
four and a half years in, but my

story was extremely compelling.

Right.

And I'm not the only one with a
story like that.

But if there was ever a
description of a life that

should have been over or just
was hopeless and just had no

chance of recovery, I had one, I
had one of those stories.

So I started used to speak as
the keynote speaker, a lot of

gellas.

I started doing that.

Um I got on the board of
directors of the same shelter I

used to visit, which houses 400
men and women.

I'm like the only white guy all
black in the hood, man, in the

ghetto.

And uh they one of the directors
there was in program, listened

to my story, and says, Hey, the
block you're describing by the

projects.

You ever go to Franciscan Health
Mary and Joseph shelter?

I'm like, dude, I was in another
for years.

They kept kicking me out for
stealing food.

And eventually he's like, oh my
God, you know, I'm one of the

senior case managers there.

So then the then all these that
ran by Franciscan Catholics.

So all these 60, 70,
80-year-olds have been, you

know, on the board of directors,
a doctor, a lawyer.

They all interview me and
they're like, hey, we want you

to consider being on the board
of directors of the state,

operated in multiple shelters
and outreach centers throughout

Chicago.

And then here I am, a couple of
years sober as a board of

director with some really
credential critiques,

prestigious people.

Um, and then my story, you know,
got a little bit more known.

I was interviewed a couple of
times, all this stuff.

So it started to take off,
right?

And and I started to live this
life of resilience and recovery

and transformation.

And um, and it was pretty good.

But it did affect my ego too, I
think.

You know, in hindsight, I think
that might have led to um some

things between my fourth and
fifth year, what I picked up

again for a short period of
time.

And uh, but it was all something
I had to learn.

But why my life changed is I've
never I've known people who were

as surrendered to as me.

And I think what I'm afflicted
with, as sick as I am, to the

level, to the extreme of uh of
my chronic addiction to uh

substances.

Uh if I did not possess that
willingness for whatever reason

it came to me at that time that
was different than before, uh, I

think I had no chance whatsoever
to stay sober and to rebuild a

life that I never had.

Uh so it's all about willingness
in action, obviously.

But yeah, I had it.

You know, it just came and it
was beautiful, man.

It was beautiful because I knew
I was fucked every single time,

and I knew that every time I try
to get somewhere sober early on,

there was no way that I was
going to be able to do this

forever.

And then when I finally had
everything taken away and I got

you know, put back into life,
there was a newfound willingness

that was, you know, probably
divinely inspired, you know,

that gave me the willingness to
build this life with a lot of

help and but a lot of effort on
my own part, right?

SPEAKER_00: Wow.

I I'm curious, and and maybe
this can segue us into the end

here.

You know, one thing that I never
had anticipated was the

incredible effect that my
children would have on me, or or

the the learning to be a father
would have on me.

And I know, you know, you you're
just in love with your your wife

and your daughter.

And I'm I'm curious how that has
come to play in your your

recovery being a dad.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I'm so
grateful you asked that.

So I could turn the phone
around, but I'll spare you, and

you'll see literally dozens and
dozens of things with my

daughter all over my office.

And and I don't compare myself
to other people at all, Austin,

in this way, not in sobriety,
not as a citizen in the world or

not as a family member.

I could be a way better husband.

I'm a very, you know, I'm
afflicted with something that's

severe.

It makes me, you know,
unapproachable at times.

It shuts me down emotionally.

Um, I still can have impatience
and anger issues.

And just being honest, I could
be a better husband, but I'm a

good provider.

I take care of these girls, I
keep them safe, I protect them,

I provide a really wonderful
life for them.

But I'm required to do more as a
husband.

I've really been thinking uh
deep about that.

That my my my wife deserves a
more emotionally available human

being.

And and I have to get I have to
probably get some help around

there and unpack that again,
right?

Because why wouldn't I be?

She is as loving and as kind of,
she literally is like Bambi.

She is one of the most softest,
kindest.

She has none of the calamities
from resentments, judgments, you

know, nothing like that.

She's happy, man.

She wakes up happy every day.

I'm like, how in the hell could
somebody be so perfectly

adjusted to life?

Like, this is bullshit.

You know, but you know, it's
like I think I think a lot of me

shutting down is I feel guilty
because I'm just not nearly like

that on a regular basis.

And and I'm not I'm not a
complete break.

I laugh a lot.

I'm one of the most jovial
people.

But when it comes to my
daughter, when it comes to this

beautiful soul that I have such
a great privilege, man, I mean,

when I have felt hopeless
through the years, and I have,

man, you know, I have felt
emotionally hopeless, you know,

you know, butt naked, sober and
clean.

I can look in her eyes and find
hope every time.

I mean, sincerely.

And we are so close, you know.

We we she tells me she loves me.

I tell her I love her multiple
times a day.

We have special daddy-daughter
snuggling time every morning.

I've been gifted.

I work remotely 100% of the
time.

So she has woken up with me, she
has gone to sleep with me and

her mother.

Um, I've driven her to school
97.8% of her school days uh

through her years in school.

I chaperone.

I'm always with her.

And I mean, she begs me not to
go to meetings, she begs me not

to go to the gym.

Daddy, just tell them that your
daughter needed you so you

couldn't make it today.

You know, to be yeah, dude.

She's hardcore.

She's gonna be in, I think she's
gonna be in uh hardcore business

development because she can
negotiate, but it is one of the

most beautiful gifts I've ever
had is to be a parent and not

produce the trauma, the harm,
and the scars in her that I

experience.

So, you know, it's just such a
beautiful thing.

And I love all children.

I do.

And I think that, you know, and
I'm not gonna get there at all,

but you know, as as a as an
emotionally and kind of a

socially liberal type person,
where that comes from, Austin,

for me, is because I've I've
been abused severely, dude.

I almost died.

I remember coming to you and
just blood in my eyes at three

years old, right?

They had a they had to give me a
transfusion or put blood in me.

I almost butt out.

And you know, when you go
through shit like that and you

have people telling you you're a
piece of shit, you'll never

amount to nothing, never give
you affirmation or love, and you

grow up like that, I have a
tremendous amount of empathy for

people who have made bad
decisions like you and me.

Like I'm not trying to burn
someone at, you know, on a state

because they they made bad.

How could they do that?

Well, how self-righteous would
it be for me, right?

So, you know, when it comes to
loving my daughter and when it

comes to seeing the world and my
worldview, you know, it's real

important for me to remember who
I am and what I am and what I

have done and the havoc I have
caused and where I come from.

So I have a lot of empathy and
compassion for everyone.

That's why I desperately, you
know, actually mean deeply love

all children, right?

I just do because there's these
innocent, impressionable, you

know, um fragile little souls
bouncing around the world.

And you see it, man.

I I was at uh Quattica last
week, you know, close up with

this, and I saw this
40-year-old, 35-year-old mom

with a couple of kids, and she's
like, get over here, and she's

screaming.

And then she's like, she goes,
and it hits them.

And you know, and not to like
extreme child abuse, but I

wouldn't, I can't even imagine
spanking my daughter.

I would never, ever not spank my
daughter.

I don't believe in it.

And the effect it had on me was
visceral.

And the next thought afterwards
is like, hey, how you know, I

hope they can find a path to
health.

Um and the next thought is how
beautiful that I am uh an adult

survivor of extreme abuse.

And uh and that is not my
daughter's experience, you know,

that that experience has been
transformed into something

beautiful and loving.

And she's a an amazing.

And let me let me just say this.

I just want to get this out,
brag a little bit.

My daughter got the empathetic
award, the empathy award in in

first grade from her Christian
school.

And then this this year she got
the problem solver award.

And um, and her teachers have
said she fills up our hope and

our love, love, love bucket
every day.

She is as kind and as sweet and
as obedient and honest little

kid that we could ever want.

What a gift that you have given
us to let her be a part of our

school.

And that's her experience,
right?

And that's what getting sober
has done, man, and it's affected

them, and that's what it's
about, right?

It's about that.

SPEAKER_00: That game of goose
moments, Mark.

That was so good, buddy.

Dude, man, you know, I was
laying, I was laying down to go

to sleep, trying to think of who
do I, who do I want to have on

here?

And I don't your name just
popped in my head, man.

And I'm so glad that we got an
opportunity to do this, bud.

Uh, you're you're you are a
miracle, and and your family is

too.

And I really appreciate you
sharing that with us.

And do me a favor, stick around
after I hit the end button so we

can chat just for a second.

All right.

For anyone that's listening,
dude, Mark, thank you so much,

buddy.

For anyone that's listening on
uh Apple Podcasts or Spotify, do

us a favor, leave a rating,
leave a I don't know if you can

leave a comment.

I don't know, do do whatever you
do on those podcast platforms.

That's the best way that you
could support us.

My name's Austin.

We're gonna get out of here.

Talk to you soon.