One Last Hit | A Sobriety and Addiction Recovery Podcast

SPEAKER_00: Uh, what's
happening, ladies and gentlemen?

My name is Austin, and welcome
to the One Last Hit Podcast.

And back by my own personal
demand, maybe popular demand.

We're not that popular of a show
yet, but I think we're gonna be.

Is Matt and anyone watching on
YouTube, you saw the crazy guy

that was just looking into the
camera.

But for anyone that wasn't,
Matt, what were you just telling

me like just one minute ago
about getting called into work?

SPEAKER_01: Oh, so I took a
whole bunch of pre-workout,

ready to train, uh, get my life
going, you know, and then uh got

a 911 phone call.

I need you here right now.

Okay, no problem.

So ran there and just got back
to the chair, so shit's gonna

get weird.

SPEAKER_00: Oh man, and you
know, when Matt says it's gonna

get weird, it's actually gonna
get weird.

And so uh I I actually before,
you know, full disclosure,

before I asked Matt to come on
and like tell his story, which

we did last week, um, really
personally, selfishly, I

thought, oh, Matt would be a
really good co-host because he's

a he's a fucking goofball, and
uh and plus we get along great.

SPEAKER_01: I'm a particular
flavor of mentally ill, it's

great.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's
that's good, man.

It's not too spicy, it's right
in the middle.

And so, and so this is the first
show.

This is the eighth episode uh
that we've done so far, and this

is the first show where we're
just gonna shoot the shit and

and like talk about you know,
sobriety, like what it actually

looks like, what it actually
means.

You know, we don't really have a
format on how this is going to

go, but um, you know, Matt did a
few rails of pre-workout before

this.

Now, I'm just kidding, he's
snoring it.

I don't think you're snoring it.

Are you snoring it?

You're not, yeah, not this time,
not this time, not this time,

but uh, so I'm sure we'll get
into some good shit.

So, Matt, how you doing, buddy?

Aside from being super jacked
right now, doing really well,

man.

SPEAKER_01: It's been a good
day.

Had a uh an interesting work day
where uh showed up to the job

and they wouldn't let us in the
door.

So just no, this is at
universal.

This at universal, yeah.

They uh you have to be on a
special list with special people

and they forgot to do the
special stuff stuff.

Got to uh treat some employees
to a breakfast at Hash House a

GoGo.

If you guys have never been to
that, I highly recommend it.

It was on diners, drive-ins, and
dives.

Incredible food, large portions
that fit me.

SPEAKER_00: So yeah.

So if you do start co-hosting,
maybe we can get them to sponsor

the show.

Sponsor Hash House a go-go,
which is a mouthful, and they'll

give you a mouthful if you want
a mouthful.

See what you did there.

I know, yeah, yeah.

That wasn't sexual either.

That was just something.

So, so I was kind of thinking on
how I want this show to go,

right?

I listen to a lot of
recovery-based podcasts, which

by the way, uh, before we get
into this, big shout out.

Um, sobriety talk.com.

Anyone that likes recovery-based
media, go to sobriety talk.com.

It has a listing of over 500 uh
recovery-based podcasts.

You can vote on your favorites
every week, you can fangirl, you

can leave reviews and comments
for them.

It's just cool, just cool ass
site.

Uh, full disclosure on that, I
own that site, so I'm a little

bit biased, but like go check it
out.

It's uh it's a banger.

And uh, where was I going with
that before I got all

self-centered on you guys?

Um, oh, I listen to a lot of
recovery-based content, and I

was kind of thinking, um, you
know, I I like I like taking

notes right from from the
different guys.

I listen to Recovery Elevator, I
listen to the guys over at Sober

Not Mature, whom I like.

They like to, you know, fuck
around and banter.

And and I was just thinking, you
know, you had brought up a

couple of of interesting topics.

You said you were listening to
uh what was the name of that

podcast?

SPEAKER_01: Uh Three Legacies.

SPEAKER_00: And Don L was on
there, who, you know, circuit

speaker, we love Don L.

We're actually there's a uh a
conference that's happening or a

retreat, if you will, um, in
summer of 2027 here in Orlando,

where Don L is going to be one
of the speakers.

But um, so what were they what
were they chatting about?

What were those topics?

SPEAKER_01: So the main topic of
the of the discussion was the

non-negotiables of recovery.

And um, I had had a uh uh
previous conversation a couple

of hours ago with uh one of one
of our buddies, Manny E, and I

was talking about we're talking
about you know what what's

different now, like how why
things are working in my life

when they weren't for the past
five years.

And I started talking about
prayer and meditation, you know,

that that 11 step that's in all
the all of the 12-step programs.

And um, I had to admit that I I
used to have this beautiful

prayer and meditation morning
ritual.

And lately, you know, my career
has been taking off.

And um, you know, I I compete in
uh the sport of strong man, and

then there's a I signed up for
an event in February, so that's

been on my mind a lot.

I'm really excited about that.

And my meditation, you know,
when I sit down and try to be

quiet, the first thing that pops
in my head is my job.

What do I have to do today?

Where am I gonna go?

And then it's like, hey, you're
gonna pick that rock up later.

How much is that rock gonna
weigh?

What are we gonna do?

And it just it kind of drowned
everything out to the point

where for the last couple weeks,
I literally have not even been

trying to meditate, right?

It's literally a part of our
program.

So Don was talking about the
non-negotiables.

Like, this isn't it's not extra
credit, it's part of the

program.

It's literally one of the steps.

SPEAKER_00: So you bring up a
couple of interesting things,

and I I've had, you know, my own
love-hate journey with

meditation.

And I I guess I would have to
say I'm kind of on the same part

of the journey that you are, and
that I intend to do it and have

not been doing it.

But I also had times where like
I remember a time where I had

45, 45 straight days of
meditating 10 minutes in the

morning and 10 minutes in the
evening.

And I I I had seen some
literature on this later on that

that actually says that that
when you when you meditate, and

it it's not necessarily to how
do I put this?

It's not necessarily to quiet
your mind.

I know that that's a kind of the
overarching theme, but I think I

think really what it is is to be
a witness to what's going on.

And so, but what starts to
happen is is the prefrontal

cortex, which is that little
part of your brain that kind of

hangs over the front.

Um yeah, that one right there,
which which is responsible for a

lot of um, and any neurosurgeons
or neuroscientists will quickly

call me out for being wrong
because I'm not that, but uh,

for my understanding, it it's
it's a uh the part that's

responsible for a lot of your
rational decision making.

And it's the part that um the
you know, there there was a guy

named Victor Frankel.

Do you know who that is, Victor
Frankel?

And yeah, he wrote a book
called, ah shit.

I forgot the name of his book,
but I'm gonna quote him.

I have read the book.

Um, but anyhow, he was a he was
a psychologist that or

psychiatrist that was actually
in a concentration camp, uh, Man

Search for Meaning.

That's it, that's the name of
the book.

Um, and he was in a in a uh a
concentration camp and he kind

of discovered along the way they
burnt all of his literature,

like he had an entire book
written, and they just basically

destroyed his life.

And he was really on the verge
of death.

But because he was able to find
purpose and meaning within the

environment that he was, he he
essentially lived through it.

And he wrote this book, and
there's a there's a quote in

this book that says um, and I'm
probably going to misquote it,

but but basically what it says
is all of your power lives in

the gap between stimulus and
response.

Right.

Like all of man's power lives
in, okay, you're you're you're

stimulated, somebody does
something to you, right?

It's that gap before you respond
where all of our power lives.

And the the meditation practice,
and the reason I mentioned the

prefrontal cortex is that it it
essentially expands that gap

over time, right?

It kind of puts us in that
place.

And so I've been I've been on a
struggle with meditation lately.

And in fact, uh if I'm being
perfectly candid, which I guess

is the point of all this, um,
and I could do this better, but

like I do my my prayer
meditation when I get into my

office because my five kids are
not there uh up my ass.

And there's sometimes I'm gonna
I'm coming into my office and my

my wheels are going about my
work day, and I don't get back

to you know my prayer and
meditation practice.

I just do my best to kind of
make up for it later in the day.

But you're right, it's a
non-negotiable something, right?

It's it's something uh that that
we're supposed to be doing in

the morning.

So that was that was a long
fucking rant.

SPEAKER_01: That was a good
rant, though.

That was good.

Talked about the brain shit.

I love it.

Um it's a I guess the meditation
for me was it was introduced as

you know, prayer is is speaking
to God, meditation is listening

for an answer, right?

And I was given this this like
this box to be in, right?

Well, meditation, you're
supposed to sit quietly by

yourself, you know, with no
sound and no other stimulus, if

you will, and and just listen.

And that's just utterly
impossible for me.

You said meditate for 10
minutes, that seems like an

eternity.

I hit two minutes like a couple
months ago, and I thought I was

on top of the world.

Uh because I was right, it was a
it was a landmark for me.

Um, but it something interesting
I hear from from old timers that

that I've brought this up to.

They're like, first of all,
don't put yourself in a box, and

then there's rule 62, right?

Don't take yourself too
seriously.

So so I find just after
listening to the little bit of

that that that podcast, um, I
just shut off the radio, right?

And I'm driving, so I'm still
doing something, I'm still

focused.

But that doesn't mean I can't be
listening to God, I can't be

interacting, right?

Interacting with my higher
power, whom I call God.

Um and so it's not this, this
it's not what it was it was

proposed to me, right?

Because I can sit there and be
peaceful, and I I really think

that's where meditation has uh
made an impact in my life.

The times I do it, it's it's
you're talking about that gap in

between the stimulus, right?

It's the there's a piece that
comes along with that, just an

overarching peach piece for the
day.

SPEAKER_00: Sure.

And I think I think, you know,
so and I know that in our our

modern day vernacular, you know,
meditation has a really specific

meaning of sitting quiet, you
know, by yourself in a room.

But I think in when originally
when our literature was written,

they had a different meaning.

Uh, it was not the eastern form
of meditation that we've come to

like associate it with.

It was if you read Dr.

Bob in the good old timers, um,
and actually there's a lot of

literature on this, what they
would do in their their morning

devotional, right?

They would call it, they would
have their morning devotional,

and then in that quiet state,
they would actually pick up a

pencil and a piece of paper and
just start writing and see what

comes out in the midst of that
writing, almost like it was it

was some form of of divine
communication.

And so in the original, in the
original meaning, and again,

this could be completely wrong.

In the original meaning,
meditation meant contemplation.

Um, it it meant more of that.

Now, in in today's way of
looking at it, right?

Meditation means straight up
meditation.

Have you ever used Insight
Timer?

SPEAKER_01: Man, I love it.

I loved it.

I actually I used to have it on
a previous phone.

I just got a new phone a couple
months ago and haven't

downloaded it yet.

But there was there was a couple
morning meditations that I would

love to do, and they were more
it, they were like five minutes

long, which when there's when
there is a direction for me, I

can sit for the from five to ten
minutes, right?

But just sitting by myself in my
head trying to listen to God two

minutes max, right?

Um, but inside timer was a
really beautiful tool when I did

use it.

SPEAKER_00: So, what books do
you read in the morning?

So let's get we'll get off the
meditation uh rant and move into

the like do you have any type of
devotionals or like you know,

12-step recovery focus books
that you read?

SPEAKER_01: So I have a uh I
have a 12-step recovery book

that I read that's non uh it's
it's uh more of an agnostic.

Yeah, yeah.

What is it?

I can't remember the name of
the.

I can run and get it real quick,
but uh I I don't have it.

I'll have to have it on the next
one.

Um, but it's more of um it it it
brings pieces of philosophy into

the day.

SPEAKER_00: That's exciting,
which is really cool.

SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's one of
the longer ones.

There's usually a couple pages.

Um there's uh you know, Jesus
calling, hit that one up.

You gotta have background, you
know, got the Christian

background, so it's right, it
speaks to my soul.

Um, and those are usually the
two.

And then we got our buddy Nick P
that sends out his morning, his

morning text that I really like
to sit with those.

They're beautiful, really
beautiful daily devotionals.

And then the the uh um the the
daily reflection in the uh in

the in our recovery apps.

SPEAKER_00: I usually I have a
uh dude, there's a really solid

book.

Uh there's you know Cliff G from
Oklahoma.

Oh, yeah, very okay.

So he was over here doing a
conference.

SPEAKER_01: It was great.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He was over here and we were
having breakfast with him, and

he suggested this book called
Stumbling in the Right Direction

by by Don Major.

And it it kind of and Don Major
was like he he sponsored a lot

of the guys that we know from
you know that that are circuit

speakers now.

Um, but what he does is he kind
of aggregates all of the various

recovery books into three
paragraphs, like it just it kind

of distills it down into three
paragraphs.

And I was talking with a guy
this morning, and man, I need to

take, you know, I need to take
my own fucking advice sometimes,

Matt, because I don't I don't do
that, isn't it?

That's more sponsees are great.

Um in that I need to at least at
least a little bit, right?

Even if it's when I'm like
taking a leak in the morning, I

need to do something to stop
that train of thought that that

happens first thing, you know.

Um, and I've got the prayer,
right?

Which is essentially me talking,
but but those books really help

to push me in a direction I
wasn't considering uh in the

morning.

And so that book, Stumbling in
the Right Direction, is solid,

very, very solid.

SPEAKER_01: I like that.

So you speaking about using go
ahead.

You brought up Cliff G.

Um, I got something really
beautiful that I went to

Brothers in Our Defects, which
is a uh a men's retreat that

that he proctors every year, and
he gave me these things.

So they're just little cards,
little cards with the prayers,

and they just sit right on my
desk.

Got the St.

Francis prayer.

Um and this this I see this
every morning when I get up and

sit down on my computer, and
also this.

This is fun.

This isn't recovery based, but
what in what in the F is that?

So it's it's a uh plush um
crocheted dumpster fire says

emotional support, dumpster
fire.

It's fine, I'm fine,
everything's fine, and that sits

right there with the Lord's
Prayer and the same for instance

prayer.

SPEAKER_00: That's like the uh
the dog in the fire meme you

mentioned last week.

Yeah, it's my life.

That's Matt.

Every time I see that now, I'm
just gonna think of you, bro.

I love it.

So, aside from like meditation,
what were the other

non-negotiables?

Prayer meditation, what else?

SPEAKER_01: Prayer meditation
with the non-negotiables.

The next one was uh, you know,
working, sharing the message,

just working with the new guy,
not working with others,

specifically working with the
new guy.

Um, and we, you know, Manny and
I got to uh get on a call with

with one of his new sponsees
that's really struggling right

now, immediately after we have
this conversation.

So, right before I get on with
you, uh getting to talk to this

guy that's really in it, he's
literally detoxing right now.

And I can just hear the pain in
his voice, and he keeps talking

to me.

It's like, hey, you want me to
come get you?

I'll come get you, I'll take you
to a meeting tonight.

Home group.

He goes, dude, I can't, I can't
even function right now.

And I was like, Man, I remember
that so very well.

How many times have I been right
in that right in that moment

where it's like I will never do
this again, only to do it again

a couple weeks later.

But you know, selfishly, that's
the the biggest part of chatting

with the new guy that I've found
for myself is is like that

reminder.

It's a constant reminder that I
could be right there after one

decision.

What was he detoxing from?

Alcohol.

Yeah, yeah, bad one.

A few days deep, like oh, got
the shake, the poops in the

peas.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he he he's not
in a detox, he's detoxing

himself.

Yeah, 100%.

Oh god, dude.

Stay close to that guy, man.

You die from that shit, you
know?

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

Need a little little medical
detox there.

So so what is it about what is
it about the newcomer or working

with a new guy that is so
impactful?

SPEAKER_01: So I can speak from
from both ends of this for the

guy that sat in the room for
five years and collected enough

chips to tile a kitchen, um
enough white chips specifically

to tile a kitchen floor.

Um being on the receiving end of
you guys constantly just showing

up, never looking down on me,
never being like showing me

constant love, constant love.

I had I was full of shame and
guilt, and you would always be

like, Hey man, at least you came
back, you're here.

How can I help?

Let me share a little bit of my
story with you, let me share the

some some recovery with you.

You have a lot of problems, we
got a lot of solutions here.

And now being on the other end
of that, it's it's um my sponsor

always has said from the very
first when we first started

working together, he said, You
don't really get to enjoy the

benefits of the program until
you start working with a new guy

and taking a new guy through the
literature.

And I obviously didn't
understand what that meant until

I started doing that.

And you know, it's it's just
getting a taste of it now.

I'm really starting to
understand not only what it

means to work with a new guy,
but also the importance of

really truly working those
non-negotiables to be able to

share something, share, share
the solution with another guy.

SPEAKER_00: I will tell you that
you know, depression, and every

time I've been in depression,
which I have been multiple times

and in sobriety, it was always
characterized by an obsessive

focus on me, which which what
that does, that obsessive focus

on myself causes me to when I'm
only looking at myself and my

problems, it causes those to
magnify, right?

They get bigger.

There's a a principle in in uh I
don't know if it's God, I'm I'm

speaking way out of my league
here.

I want to say physics, might be
neuroscience, I don't know.

But where attention goes, energy
flows, right?

Joe Dispenza talks about that
all the time.

Where attention goes, energy
flows.

And um, it was remarkable to me
that in the midst of, I don't

know, I'm having some crisis
that's either, you know, maybe a

little bit real, but a whole
bunch of manufactured, you know,

it's a little bit bad, but I've
made it this much bad because

I've been focusing on it for
however long.

And and a guy calls me and and
and I know what happens on these

calls, right?

He needs to check in with me.

It's not for me to check in with
him.

And uh, and so he starts telling
me what's going on with him.

And and it almost never fails
unless it's a really, really bad

thing I got going on.

It almost never fails that I get
off of that call going, you

know, I know I was jammed up
before that guy called.

And I'll tell you, I don't
really remember what was going

on.

Like I know, you know what I
mean?

I know some of the circumstances
surrounding it, but like that

feeling of, oh my God, this is
awful, just tends to because I I

made most of it up.

That's it, and it's absolutely
true.

And I was talking to a lady
earlier who uh I was doing a

podcast earlier today, super
nice lady, not an addict or an

alcoholic.

And she was asking me, like,
what are the things that we do

uh to stay sober?

And I was telling her about
inventory, nightly inventory,

all the different things.

Um, and she was kind of digging
into like what does that

actually look like?

What does that actually mean?

And I was I was getting into
like, you know, normal people

can go throughout their life and
cop a little resentment and you

know, have a little crisis and
be a little dishonest here and

there, you know, and and their
shit's not gonna like blow up.

But with with us, where our our
entire hope is to have, you

know, a spiritual experience,
whatever, and that's subjective,

it's different for every person,
but to have what we would

consider to be a spiritual
experience, like these

behaviors, these these different
ways of acting uh and feeling

are dude, they're right back
into restless, irritable, and

discontented, which is that that
state of alcoholism, you know,

that we that we have when we
first walk in.

So very well put, Matt.

Good stuff, buddy.

Good stuff.

So, all right, so we've got
prayer meditation, we've got

working with others, which
really I heard somebody say that

that 90% of the program is step
12, and the other 11 is 10.

And um, and I don't know if if
those are you know

scientifically accurate numbers,
but but I can tell you that that

step 12 is a is a big piece, and
so aside From that, where else

do they go?

SPEAKER_01: Um, so you brought
up the nightly inventory, and

that's something that has been
been a uh a cornerstone to me

being able to keep my sobriety
and keep my head on my

shoulders, and it's something
that that I don't if I miss it,

it's very rare.

And uh it's it helps it allows
me to open up and be genuinely

not only transparent but
vulnerable, which was uh

recently defined to me as
vulnerability, is being yourself

no matter the consequences, even
especially if they're gonna be

negative.

Um so and and learning how to
apply that and be honest to uh

you know, I I send my inventory
to 10 guys every night or every

morning.

I'm a morning guy, yeah, yeah.

And I send it every single
morning, and I and I'm I'm as

honest as I can be at that
moment on what happened the

previous day, and it allows
people to speak into my life,

right?

I give these guys spiritual
license to where uh if they see

something consecutive in my
inventory, like I mentioned last

week, me and food have the same
kind of same relationship as

alcohol did in my life.

So if it's like uh I messed up
on my my calorie count because I

add my calories in at the end of
my inventory.

So if the calories are way over
day after day after day, there's

a couple guys that'll just be
like, Hey, what are you doing?

Why are you not focused in your
life?

And it gives it it allows other
people to speak into my

existence because left to my own
devices, I'm there's no telling

where I'll go.

SPEAKER_00: So can you can you
explain to people what the

inventory, the nightly inventory
is for anyone that doesn't know

that's listening?

Sure.

SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a a
list of 10 questions that it's

laid out in the uh the what we
call the big book of alcoholics

anonymous.

And um, you know, it asks you,
do you have any resentments, you

know, or what did you have any
fear?

And it gives you space to list
these out.

It's the I do it on an app that
we have, um, and it gives you

it's a you know, check yes or no
and then explain.

So it's resentments, any fears,
um, you know, what uh what you

brought into the day basically.

And then at the end, what I'll
I'll do is uh is give a

synopsis, like what happened,
you know.

Did I hit my prayer meditation
in the morning?

And lately it's been no for the
meditation part.

Uh, and then it kind of go
through just go through the day

and list what happened and where
I went.

But it's it's uh it's an
opportunity to really sit down

and see, you know, where you
were where you were right and

wrong.

SPEAKER_00: I guess right and
wrong probably is the words.

No, no, where you were on or off
the beam, right?

That makes sense, right?

Sure.

Yeah.

Sandy Beach gives an a you know
who Sandy Beach is, obviously,

Matt.

Um he's passed away, so and
that's not his real name, so we

can just call him that.

Uh, but anyhow, he's circuit
speaker.

Um, he passed away, I think 10
or 12 a few years ago, anyhow.

And he used to be a fighter
pilot, and he he was a fighter

pilot before they had like
modern day guidance systems,

right?

And GPS and things.

And so when he was when during
during when he was flying, what

would happen is they had an
audible system.

So the way that you knew you
were on course is if you flew a

little bit to the right, you'd
hear a a beep, and if you flew a

little bit to the left, you'd
hear a boop, right?

And if you were hearing nothing,
the assumption was you were on

course.

But if you hear nothing for a
long time, you have to make the

assumption that your equipment
is broken.

Is and kind of what he was what
he was lending itself to is um

that this inventory process, the
sensitivity that we have to

where we get off the beam is
really important.

The more sensitive I can be, the
better it is, right?

And I don't mean sensitive in
the form of like I'm crying over

this.

I mean sensitive in the in the
sense that, hey, I've noticed it

and I'm gonna report in on it.

And if I'm reporting in on
nothing and I'm picking up

nothing, it's very, it's very
likely the equipment's broken,

and I'm just like, I'm just way
the fuck off the beam, right?

And so yeah, the nightly
inventory is absolutely

essential, absolutely essential,
man.

And and you know what's sorry,
go ahead.

SPEAKER_01: That's really well
put.

Like, I I I haven't I haven't
heard that part.

I heard him talk about you know
the attitude, the the definition

in pilot's terms of attitude is
is whether you're on course or

not.

Um, but I've never heard that
portion of it, and it really

makes sense too, because you
know, there's been plenty of

times where I'm just checking
boxes, right?

There's days after days like,
oh, I did my inventory and it's

just nonsense.

But then, you know, that that
beeping sound is when somebody

reaches out and says, Hey, you
wrote the same shit for four

days in a row.

Are you being honest?

I'm like, oh, okay, let me get
back on course.

So that's a beautiful example.

SPEAKER_00: Well, and I'm
presented with this all the

time.

Like, this happens all the time.

And if I didn't know how bad my
alcoholism was, I probably

wouldn't be able to overcome it.

Um, but I'm always presented
with I don't want to write this.

I could I could be dishonest
about it, right?

But I'm gonna put it down anyhow
because I know that's not the

point.

Um, because it for me, the very
first thing to go, and this

could be years before a relapse,
is the nightly inventory.

It's the first damn thing I get
rid of because it's just it just

feels so much like extra credit,
right?

But it's not, it's not extra
credit, right?

Yeah, interesting, man.

Interesting.

Uh, so we got the nightly
inventory, working with others,

um, prayer meditation.

Was there anything else in there
that they talked about?

So, as far as I got into it, no.

Okay, there are there is more,
there's more to come, right?

SPEAKER_01: There's more but
wait, there's more.

But wait, there's more.

SPEAKER_00: Nice, dude.

Nice.

So as we were leading up to this
show, and and I'm not I'm not a

preparatory sort of guy.

Maybe I will get preparatory,
maybe I'll I'll train an AI to

prep for me.

Like, you know, give me
something to talk about on these

shows, right?

But but I've been a guy that has
relapsed so many times, and so

are you, right?

And yeah, and and and I always
had so much respect for you for

coming back and and admitting
it, right?

Because I'm a runner, I I'm not
a face embarrassment head-on

sort of guy.

I'm you know, I can be when I'm
like sober and doing the deal,

but like if shit gets
uncomfortable for me, that's why

I went to Mexico, right?

It was like, uh, fucking it's
too much of a pain in the ass

and embarrassing here in the
United States.

Let's go to Cancun and live
there.

Oh my god, I'm gonna sneeze on
camera.

Hang on, do it, do it.

It'll it'll blast people out.

Let's see if it's gonna happen.

I muted.

Man, that was like my dad has
the loudest sneezes I've ever

heard.

And like, dude, I think it's the
more he ages, the louder that

shit gets.

It's like 50 decibels.

It'll anyhow, we're getting off
track.

What was I talking about?

Oh, yeah, running.

And I was so I'm I always was so
I know that you were hurting.

I know that you didn't want to
do it.

I know you didn't want to be the
guy that was always putting his

hand up for under 30 days, but I
knew you had the courage to do

it, and I respected that.

And and a lot of like what I
think the power is in the room,

and the way that we we grow
close to one another is, and

that's what I love so much about
our group, is that what's really

uh I don't want to say rewarded
because that's maybe not the

right word, but like what's
really encouraged is don't tell

us where you're winning.

Don't come in and like try and
quote the book at us because we

know it too.

Like, tell us where you got off
the mark, let us see the shit

that's ugly, let us see the
stuff that that we know you're

being vulnerable with, because
it's in that that we actually

get to know and love you, right?

And and we got a lot of that
from you on a fairly consistent

basis, and I'm glad it's I'm
glad you're not doing that

anymore.

SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, me
too, bro.

So is my pocket.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, dude.

Yeah, so sorry for sneezing, uh,
but y'all didn't hear it, but it

was a loud one, dude.

SPEAKER_01: I felt like my
father when I was because you're

allergic to the bullshit, you
know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00: Allergic to the
bullshit, nasty south.

We got the nasty and nasty.

So, um, you know, I had an
interesting thing come.

Boy, this is a oh, I might ext
uh hopefully I don't keep us on

here too long.

So there's a group in upstate
New York, and I won't mention

their name, who rails hard
against non-narcotic medication,

any medication whatsoever, like
no antidepressants, no, they're

like, you're not sober.

Now I take Zolof.

Zolof changed my life, right?

Straight up.

It had it, you know, my brain
was pretty, pretty bramaged

after uh smoking kilos of crack
for a number of years, right?

And so uh, you know, in in my
experience, it kind of just put

me back at baseline so that I
can function.

And then you've got, you know, I
know that that the program

doesn't really get into this,
but we've got all the way over

to medication-assisted therapies
today, right?

Map programs where no that's
your name, uh, no pun intended,

um, where they put people on,
you know, not non-narcotic shit,

narcotic shit, right?

That uh they stay on almost
indefinitely.

And and I'm curious, um, if you
and maybe maybe we're kind of

getting a little little intimate
here on our first date, but um

do you have any experience with
this, Matt?

Because I know that that it
tends to vary a lot of the

opinions around this.

SPEAKER_01: 100%.

So I um part of the reason why
I'm sober today is because uh I

finally allowed myself to be
medicated by a professional, and

it took um I got diagnosed at 19
years old with uh manic

depressive bipolar.

And I'm from the woods, bro.

I grew up on a farm where we
don't have mental problems,

right?

We just go back, we just go back
to work, right?

You fall down, you get hurt, you
feel sad, you go to work.

You fall down, you go to work.

Girl breaks up with you, just go
to work, you just keep working.

Um, so I didn't want to believe
that that was an issue in my

life until you know one of the
guys in our group, uh, I got

really close to him, and he, you
know, I had this this I have

this thing where it's just like
I'll go and I'll go and I'll go,

and then all of a sudden it's
like I just I would call it

running out of gas.

And it was it's like where I get
stuck on the couch and I

physically can't get up, and I'm
not like sad.

So it and and it was pointed out
to me, Matt, that's what

depression is, right?

And I was like, Oh, okay, uh, I
didn't know that, and I didn't

believe it at first.

You know, it took it took a few
months of being coaxed into uh

considering speaking to a
professional, but uh you know, I

it I wasn't sad, I thought
depression was just you felt sad

all the time, and that's that's
it.

You know, I would that the
mania, I live in the mania, I

live in it.

That's the oh I love it, bro.

That's my favorite.

And then when I hit the
depressive state, it's like

literally I just stop.

It's like the switch goes off.

And so I'm actually I'm on well
butrian and abilify.

I take it in the well butrian in
the morning, I take abilify in

the evening, and it has changed
my life.

Everything used to be way high
and way low, and now it's just

kind of okay in the middle.

And I I you know, I very much
believe that that's a huge part

of the reason why I could hear
the message well enough to get

some sobriety under my belt is
because of the medication,

right?

So I'm I'm a firm believer that
if you got if if you need to go

see someone, you need to speak
someone, I I I'm not I don't I

don't align with that group in
New York by any means.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, and it's
not a it's not a substitution

for the work by any means, but I
do think like giving and this is

again just my experience, right?

When I was, and this is
depression comes in a lot of

different forms, right?

It might be you on the couch.

Uh for me, it came out in um
oversensitivity to comments.

Like now I can banter with
anyone, and I won't take it

personal, but you know, somebody
might say something, and then

I'll spend the next 45 minutes
thinking about what they meant

by that comment.

Um, you know what I mean?

Or like my wife says something
to me and I go into a funk.

And and it was also
characterized by um like I would

get severely overwhelmed by my
children, which I have five, so

you know, many people would get
overwhelmed by that, but but

these are my kids, like I gotta
be able to show up for them, you

know, and and and maintain some
emotional regulation, nervous

system regulation.

And I was on like Prozac for a
little while, and it worked

okay, but it didn't see.

I didn't realize that, you know,
when I was a kid, I had I had

really bad nervous ticks.

Really fucking bad, Matt.

Like, like I would twitch out, I
would make noises in the back of

the classroom, and this went on
for years.

And and a lot of that was was
because I was a little ball of

anxiety, but I didn't know how
to, I didn't know how to say

anxiety.

And I've had this strange
low-level anxiety my entire

life, but but just like you, I
said, ah, it's you know, it's

fucking life, right?

It's no big deal.

And it wasn't until I got off of
Prozac, because that was making

my anxiety worse, and got onto
Zolov that I went, oh my God,

I'm able to not get overwhelmed
with my children as easily.

I'm able to not, you know, fly
off the handle.

I'm able to not take things
personally.

Um and and that dude, that it
changed uh Hunter.

When I was starting to go on
this medication, I would call

Hunter and be like, dude, my
life is changing right now.

And uh, and it was like, fuck,
why didn't I do that, you know,

15 years earlier?

I might have might have had a
better shot at things, you know.

So I'm with you, man.

But I also think there's the
other side of it where, you

know, if you got somebody with a
really bad heroin addiction and

you slap them on, you know,
Subitex or Suboxin or meth or

God forbid methadone, right?

And then that's just what they
do instead of dealing with

what's actually going on
underneath.

So I think there's two sides to
it.

And then there's, you know,
there's there's also if you if

you look at the the huge
worldwide numbers of addicts and

alcoholics, and you say, well,
okay, maybe this therapy is a a

technique of harm reduction,
which harm reduction is not a

bad thing necessarily, unless it
prevents somebody from finding

the the actual solution that
would actually work for them,

you know.

But but even for people that
walk through the doors of the

rooms, and I hate you know
saying statistics or anything

like that, but they're they're
especially low, you know,

they're especially, you know,
it's not many of us that that

stick around.

And I I kind of think to myself,
well, if the the stats are that

low, and I'm not gonna mention
them, but but if the stats are

that low, and it's not because
the program doesn't work, it's

because we don't work, um, then
I I better be one of the guys in

that percentage.

So I'm gonna do that much more
to make sure that I'm there, you

know.

And and I feel like a hypocrite
when I tell you that because I I

just, you know, I know that I
know that there's things that I

could be doing better in the
midst of it.

SPEAKER_01: So well, I mean,
that's part of the thing, right?

Like we're human at the end of
the day.

There's like I'm never gonna
check all the marks seven days

in a row.

I say never, I'm probably not
going to, right?

So it's it's you know, am I
doing better than I was last

week?

Because I used to look at it a
day-by-day basis, and it's like

even with like weight loss and
things like that, did I lose

weight from yesterday?

Like, oh no, I can't swim.

Okay, so I might as well give
up.

So I started looking at things
with and like uh you know, week

by week basis did it, am I
better than I was last week?

And it seems to work, and then
there's this the this this new

little thing, it says suck less.

Suck less, and it's it's a great
great little uh great mantra.

Um is it you know, am I am I
better than I was?

And the answer is yes.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a great
way to look at it.

It's like, you know, I've been
going to the gym for a number of

years, but I couldn't, I
couldn't like if you told me,

hey, you're gonna go to the gym
because you want to lose 40

pounds, can't do it.

But if if I'm gonna go to the
gym because it's gonna make me

feel good today, I can do that,
right?

I can go because it's gonna make
me feel good today.

I can't go to get me to some
future event that I can't even

fucking fathom at this point
because I'm so starved for

pizza, right?

Like that, dude.

Oh pizza.

I'm very much uh a very much a
like what's right in front of

me, sort of guy.

So yeah, hell yeah, dude.

Freaking awesome, man.

So what do we got going on
tonight?

We've got uh we got chicken
group.

No, I'm not gonna make it, dude.

Yeah, I mean oh well.

SPEAKER_01: I got some grilled
chicken shit.

We got home group.

Yep, good shit.

SPEAKER_00: Uh first step,
right?

Let's freaking go.

Let's freaking go, baby.

Awesome, man.

Matt, I've I have I've
thoroughly enjoyed our banter.

Um, and so this this really was
a trial by fire because we were

going into this with zero
planning or accountability

whatsoever.

It was like we're gonna fucking
fly by the seat of our pants,

and man, your beard looks
fucking magnificent, bro.

It looks so good right now, bro.

Look at this because of the new
camera and your beard.

But like, dude, you got that new
little high defing camera going

on, man.

Oh, ladies love them.

All right, well, uh, we're gonna
get the hell out of here, man.

Uh Maddie, I appreciate you
being here with me, buddy.

Appreciate you.

Let's rock and roll.

Let's do it again next week.

SPEAKER_01: Let's do it.

Same time, same place.

SPEAKER_00: Hell yeah.

We're getting out of here.

Take care, everyone.

Hey, if you're listening on uh
Apple Podcasts or Spotify, do me

a favor, leave us a review.

Uh, or or I don't know, can you
comment on those?

I don't even know if you can.

Uh, but but but leave us a
review, a like, follow along.

And if you're watching on
YouTube, lucky dogs, get to see

Matt's beard, um, leave us a
like or a comment, subscribe to

the channel.

We appreciate it.

You can follow along uh on our
socials at one last hit book,

and we're gonna get out of here
later, boys.